"Have" without "do"

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Rachel Adams

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Hello.

When using "have" with "breakfast", "bath", "a great time", etc it isn't wrong not to use "do", is it?
For example, "She has breakfast at 8." "She hasn't breakfast at 8." "Has she breakfast at 8?"
 

Yankee

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You need a form of "do" with the negative and question, e.g. "doesn't have" and "does she have".
 

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"She has breakfast at 8." :tick:
"She hasn't breakfast at 8.":cross:
"Has she breakfast at 8?":?:
The last one is grammatical but rarely used by anyone under seventy years of age.
 

Rachel Adams

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The last one is grammatical but rarely used by anyone under seventy years of age.

Is it an exeption? Saying "She hasn't a job" or "Has she a job?" Isn't wrong but using "have" in my original sentences is either wrong or unnatural. Is it because the meaning of "have" in "Has she a job?" "She hasn't a job" is different?
 

emsr2d2

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We use "do" only to emphasise something in declarative sentences. Otherwise, we tend not to (unless "do" is the main verb, of course).

She has a job. :tick:
Does she have a job? :tick:
Has she a job? Grammatical but so old-fashioned, it would sound very odd to all native speakers.
She doesn't have a job. :tick:
Doesn't she have a job? :tick:
Has she no job? Grammatical but, again, old-fashioned.

In your original examples, another old-fashioned usage would be "Does she breakfast at eight?" Here, "breakfast" is used as a verb. We rarely do that nowadays.
 

Rachel Adams

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We use "do" only to emphasise something in declarative sentences. Otherwise, we tend not to (unless "do" is the main verb, of course).

She has a job. :tick:
Does she have a job? :tick:
Has she a job? Grammatical but so old-fashioned, it would sound very odd to all native speakers.
She doesn't have a job. :tick:
Doesn't she have a job? :tick:
Has she no job? Grammatical but, again, old-fashioned.

In your original examples, another old-fashioned usage would be "Does she breakfast at eight?" Here, "breakfast" is used as a verb. We rarely do that nowadays.

So all sentences with "have" without "do" show old-fashioned use. My original sentences don't sound natural because of that and it doesn't matter if "has" means to "own" something or eat something as in "to have breakfast"?
 

Rachel Adams

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Yes.

When HAVE means, in the broadest possible sense, possess, some of us older Brits do not use auxiliary DO. With HAVE in its other meanings, we always use auxiliary DO.

Other meanings as in "have a bath", "have fun", "have a shower" "have dinner" , "have a meal". Right? These should have "do".
 

PaulMatthews

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Is it an exeption? Saying "She hasn't a job" or "Has she a job?" Isn't wrong but using "have" in my original sentences is either wrong or unnatural. Is it because the meaning of "have" in "Has she a job?" "She hasn't a job" is different?


You need to distinguish dynamic "have" and static "have". Dynamic "have" is a lexical verb for all speakers, but static have (which expresses such meanings as possession or obligation) is for some speakers an auxiliary verb, especially in the present tense.

This means that for negatives, we have either "don’t have" or "haven’t", and analogously with inversion. Consider these examples:

He doesn’t have enough money. [lexical "have"]
He hasn’t enough money. [auxiliary "have"]

Does he have enough money? [lexical "have"]
Has he enough money? [auxiliary "have"]

As you can see, lexical "have" requires do-support, whereas auxiliary "have" doesn't.
 

Rachel Adams

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You need to distinguish dynamic "have" and static "have". Dynamic "have" is a lexical verb for all speakers, but static have (which expresses such meanings as possession or obligation) is for some speakers an auxiliary verb, especially in the present tense.

This means that for negatives, we have either "don’t have" or "haven’t", and analogously with inversion. Consider these examples:

He doesn’t have enough money. [lexical "have"]
He hasn’t enough money. [auxiliary "have"]

Does he have enough money? [lexical "have"]
Has he enough money? [auxiliary "have"]

As you can see, lexical "have" requires do-support, whereas auxiliary "have" doesn't.

But the meaning of your sentences is the same. They all mean to possess something. In my original sentences "have" is not a lexical verb but is it not an auxiliary either with "have a shower/bath/breakfast etc.
 

Tarheel

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I take a shower or bath.

Bob: Have you had breakfast?
Rob: Yes, I ate at eight.

:)
 

Rachel Adams

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It seems to me perverse to label HAVE (and BE) 'auxiliary verbs' when they used without any other verb, and have 'meaning'.

Sorry but I don't understand why "have" is an auxiliary verb in "Has he enough money?" and "He hasn't enough money."
 

PaulMatthews

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But the meaning of your sentences is the same. They all mean to possess something. In my original sentences "have" is not a lexical verb but is it not an auxiliary either with "have a shower/bath/breakfast etc.

I explained in my previous answer the need to distinguish dynamic "have" and stative "have".

Consider whether the "have" in your original example is a dynamic verb or a stative verb.
 

Phaedrus

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When HAVE means, in the broadest possible sense, possess, some of us older Brits do not use auxiliary DO. With HAVE in its other meanings, we always use auxiliary DO.

Out of curiosity, Piscean, would you, accordingly, say that "Did she have a baby?" must have a different meaning from "Had she a baby?"

No AmE speaker would ever say "Had she a baby?" I'm guessing that in BrE it must have only the child-possessing meaning, not the birth-giving meaning. :)
 

PaulMatthews

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Whether a verb is used statively or dynamically has nothing to do with whether it is an auxiliary or not.

That's not so.

Dynamic "have" is always a lexical verb, whereas static "have" can be either a lexical verb or (for some speakers) an auxiliary.
 

PaulMatthews

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The simple assertion does not necessarily make it so.

Auxiliary verbs are traditionally classed as markers of tense, aspect, mood and voice. HAVE in 2b, below, shares with auxiliary verbs the NICE properties. That does not make it an auxilary.

1. I have (= take) a shower every morning. I don't have a shower every morning.
Lexical, dynamic.

2a. I have (= possess) only a shower in my country cottage. I don't a shower in my country cottage.
Lexical, stative.
2b. I have (= possess) only a shower in my country cottage. I haven't a shower in my country cottage.
Lexical, stative.

3. I have (aspect marker) showered already. I haven't showered yet.
Auxiliary.

4. I have (aspect marker, auxiliary) had (lexical, dynamic) a shower already
.


I don't understand why you say that the "have in "haven't a shower" in 2b. is a lexical verb. It isn't: "have" is clearly an auxiliary here since, like other lexical verbs, lexical "have" requires do-support in this kind of negation whereas auxiliary "have" doesn't. The "have" in "I don't have a shower" in 2a. is, as you say, lexical.

I gave similar examples in #10 of the possessive use of stative "have" as both a lexical verb and an auxiliary.
 
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Phaedrus

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It seems to me perverse to label HAVE (and BE) 'auxiliary verbs' when they [are] used without any other verb, and have 'meaning'.
Dynamic "have" is always a lexical verb, whereas static "have" can be either a lexical verb or (for some speakers) an auxiliary.

Wouldn't it be clearer to say that stative HAVE (for some BrE speakers) and the copula BE (for all English speakers) are both lexical verbs and auxiliaries?

Neither needs the support of another verb to be fully meaningful in positive assertions: The tree is green; He has a car.

And neither (at least for some BrE speakers) needs the support of another verb when NICE properties are needed.

Negation: The tree isn't green; He hasn't a car.
Inversion: Is the tree green?; Has he a car?
Code: He says that the tree isn't green, but it is; She thinks he hasn't a car, but he has.
Emphasis (clausal): The tree IS green; He HAS a car.

Why not admit that, while they are lexical verbs in positive assertions (The tree is green; He has a car), stative HAVE (for some BrE speakers) and copula BE (for all English speakers) are already loaded with their NICE properties and are therefore at once lexical verbs and auxiliaries?
 
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PaulMatthews

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But the meaning of your sentences is the same. They all mean to possess something. In my original sentences "have" is not a lexical verb but is it not an auxiliary either with "have a shower/bath/breakfast etc.


But it IS a lexical verb.

The crucial point is that in your original example, "have" does not express possession, but has a sense similar to that of "eat", and hence is not stative but dynamic. This explains why *"She hasn't breakfast at 8", and *"Has she breakfast at 8?" are ungrammatical. To resolve the problem, the dummy auxiliary verb "do" must be added: "She doesn’t have breakfast at 8" / "Does she have breakfast at 8?"

But when "have" has a static interpretation expressing possession or obligation, things are different. Static "have" can be a lexical verb or for some an auxiliary, meaning that we can have either "I don’t have enough money" (lexical) or "I haven’t enough money" (auxiliary). Notice that lexical "have" has do-support, whereas auxiliary "have" does not.

Is that clearer now?
 

Charlie Bernstein

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Other meanings as in "have a bath", "have fun", "have a shower" "have dinner" , "have a meal". Right? These should have "do".
Sometimes. It depends on the sentence. Sometimes do is right, sometimes it's wrong. Some sentences have some form of both do and have. Some have one or the other. Some have neither.

- I had a bath. I did have a bath. I did bathe.

- I have fun with you. I do have fun with you. I have fun doing things with you.

- I want to have dinner. I do want dinner. I do enjoy having dinner.

- I'm having a meal. I did have a meal. Do you want a meal?​

(We usually say take a shower, not have a shower.)
 

jutfrank

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PaulMatthews, do you consider copula BE an auxiliary verb?
 
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