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  1. #11
    Alexey86 is offline Senior Member
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    Re: Tom Cat vs Felix the Cat vs The Lion King

    Quote Originally Posted by Piscean View Post
    One question per post, please.
    I thought all three questions were related in that they're all about a name's/title's structure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Piscean View Post
    The King boy is a boy whose surname is King.

    You're right, the boy's name is Benjy King. But doesn't the book's title suggest a metaphor?
    Last edited by Alexey86; 20-Nov-2020 at 19:35.
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  2. #12
    Piscean is offline VIP Member
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    Re: Tom Cat vs Felix the Cat vs The Lion King

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexey86 View Post
    You're right, the boy's name is Benjy King. But doesn't the book's title suggest a metaphor?
    Not to me.
    Last edited by emsr2d2; 20-Nov-2020 at 21:21. Reason: Fixed typo
    Typoman - writer of rongs

  3. #13
    jutfrank's Avatar
    jutfrank is offline VIP Member
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    Re: Tom Cat vs Felix the Cat vs The Lion King

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexey86 View Post
    It is also a cartoon character: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_the_Cat.
    No, it isn't. This seems to be a point of confusion.


    But it doesn't change the question: Why is it The Lion King, not The King Lion?
    The word order of The Lion King is another, short, way to say 'the king of the lions'. It doesn't work, or make sense, the other way round.

    What's the difference between The King Boy and The Boy King?
    I originally had no idea what The King Boy is supposed to mean. It doesn't sound right. Only the light of what you've said about King being his surname allows this to make sense. Think of this as the writer trying to play with words.

    The phrase The Boy King is not comparable to The Lion King because it does not mean 'the king of the boys'. In this case it means 'the king who is a boy'.

    Is it about the metaphorical (the former) vs literal meaning (the latter) distinction?
    I don't know what you mean.

  4. #14
    Alexey86 is offline Senior Member
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    Re: Tom Cat vs Felix the Cat vs The Lion King

    Quote Originally Posted by jutfrank View Post
    No, it isn't. This seems to be a point of confusion.
    Here's a cartoon with this character: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amGbBFsiuzc

    Quote Originally Posted by jutfrank View Post
    The phrase The Boy King is not comparable to The Lion King because it does not mean 'the king of the boys'. In this case it means 'the king who is a boy'.
    Let's consider for a moment king an official title, not a surname. If The Boy King means the king who is a boy, would The King Boy mean the boy who is a king?

    Quote Originally Posted by jutfrank View Post
    I don't know what you mean.
    I mean King as a surname is meaningful. The author might suggest the boy is in some way like a king, but not in a literal sense: The King Boy = the boy who is (like) a king.
    Last edited by Alexey86; 20-Nov-2020 at 22:44.
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  5. #15
    probus's Avatar
    probus is offline Moderator
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    Re: Tom Cat vs Felix the Cat vs The Lion King

    Heavens, you must be young, jutfrank. When I was a child, seventy years ago, American television was full of Felix The Cat cartoons. I suppose the networks liked them because they were cheap, being ancient even then.

    Betty Boop cartoons were frequent running mates for Felix. They were ancient too, and of course we children failed to understand their raunchy jokes.

  6. #16
    jutfrank's Avatar
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    Re: Tom Cat vs Felix the Cat vs The Lion King

    Quote Originally Posted by probus View Post
    Heavens, you must be young, jutfrank.
    I don't know what I've said to make you think I'm young, probus. I'm quite familiar with Felix the Cat, even though it first appeared well before my time, back in 1919.

  7. #17
    Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
    Charlie Bernstein is offline VIP Member
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    Re: Tom Cat vs Felix the Cat vs The Lion King

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexey86 View Post
    It's from Tom and Jerry
    Thanks! I didn't know he had a last name.
    I'm not a teacher. I speak American English. I've tutored writing at the University of Southern Maine and have done a good deal of copy editing and writing, occasionally for publication.

  8. #18
    Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
    Charlie Bernstein is offline VIP Member
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    Re: Tom Cat vs Felix the Cat vs The Lion King

    Quote Originally Posted by probus View Post
    Heavens, you must be young, jutfrank. When I was a child, seventy years ago, American television was full of Felix The Cat cartoons. I suppose the networks liked them because they were cheap, being ancient even then.

    Betty Boop cartoons were frequent running mates for Felix. They were ancient too, and of course we children failed to understand their raunchy jokes.
    Yup, Felix with his little bag of tricks. My friend Tony used to do a great Felix imitation: "Open, bag, and give me my hash pipe!"

    I had a girlfriend in high school whose aunt was the Betty Boop voice. Marsha could do a pitch-perfect Boop-oop-a-doop. Uncanny.

    Which reminds me of a great trivia question: What was the cartoon character's name before they changed it to Betty Boop?

    You can probably Google it.
    Last edited by Charlie Bernstein; 21-Nov-2020 at 14:51.
    I'm not a teacher. I speak American English. I've tutored writing at the University of Southern Maine and have done a good deal of copy editing and writing, occasionally for publication.

  9. #19
    Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
    Charlie Bernstein is offline VIP Member
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    Re: Tom Cat vs Felix the Cat vs The Lion King

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexey86 View Post
    Here's a cartoon with this character: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amGbBFsiuzc

    I used to watch it every Saturday.


    Let's consider for a moment king an official title, not a surname. If the boy king means the king who is a boy, would the king boy mean the boy who is a king?

    No, we wouldn't switch it around. No one is the king of boys. Boys are often kings. So the adjective boy modifies king.

    I mean King as a surname is meaningful.

    In real life, the surname has no special significance. In fiction, yes, it can meaningful.


    The author might suggest the boy is in some way like a king, but not in a literal sense: The King Boy = the boy who is (like) a king.

    It's a good theory, but no one would get it — as Jutfrank said in post #13.
    Does that clear up anything?
    Last edited by Charlie Bernstein; 21-Nov-2020 at 14:57.
    I'm not a teacher. I speak American English. I've tutored writing at the University of Southern Maine and have done a good deal of copy editing and writing, occasionally for publication.

  10. #20
    Alexey86 is offline Senior Member
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    Re: Tom Cat vs Felix the Cat vs The Lion King

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein View Post
    Does that clear up anything?
    One thing is not quite clear. When you say you wouldn't switch the boy king around, do you mean the king boy with king as an attributive noun modifying boy wouldn't make sense at all? Or, maybe you can think of a context where it would make sense.
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