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Thread: -less

  1. MikeNewYork's Avatar
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    #41

    Re: -less

    Quote Originally Posted by j4mes_bond25 View Post
    I'm terribly sorry but I beg to differ here, if I may dare doing so.

    Surely there's a difference between "diphthong" and "long I".

    Diphthong is a "TWO short vowels" occuring together as in: "kite, safe, paid, my, etc." but "long I" is "ONE long vowel" as it occurs in: "beat, eat, Peter, meat, etc."
    It's only a matter of terminology. Two of your first group have a long A; two have a long I. Your example of long vowels only contains the long E. That's the problem with the new terminology.

  2. Lenka's Avatar

    • Join Date: May 2004
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    #42

    Re: -less

    Quote Originally Posted by j4mes_bond25 View Post
    In the words like "my, sky, dry" ..... "y" is a "diphthong" i.e. a combination of two vowels i.e. "aI" (however, NOT "ai", since there's a difference between "I" & "i"). "I" is a unstressed short vowel, while "i" is a stressed short vowel.
    Thank you for the explanation of usage /i/ and /I/ in IPA. I hadn't known it before - I was always wondering what the difference between them is, actually. (By the way, is it correct to use the past perfect tense in the previous sentence?)


    Quote Originally Posted by j4mes_bond25 View Post
    TRIPHTHONG

    >> fire - [email protected] (in British "non-rhotic" accent i.e. where "r" is NOT pronounced, but in American accent which is "rhotic" i.e. where "r" IS pronounced, it becomes "faIr" & hence remains as "diphthong")
    >> hour - [email protected] (in American accent, it's "haUr" & hence remains as "diphthong").

    Speaking of rhotic (where "r" is pronounced) and non-rhotic (where "r" is ONLY pronounced if it get followed by a vowel sound) accent, you might be interested in knowing that:

    Rhotic accent includes:

    >> MOST of the English accent (ONLY from England & NOT the British accent, since it covers England, Scotland, & Northern Ireland)
    >> Australian accent
    >> New Zealand accent
    >> South African accent
    >> Welsh accent
    >> SOME of the Indian accent
    >> Singaporean accent
    >> Malaysian accent

    Non-rhotic accent includes:

    >> American accent
    >> Canadian accent
    >> Scottish accent
    >> Irish accent
    Thank you very much, j4mes_bond25. Well, how shall I call you? James?

    Nonetheless, I can't understand something you wrote. Once you said that " but in American accent which is "rhotic" i.e. where "r" IS pronounced, it becomes "faIr" & hence remains as "diphthong")" and the other you ranked "American English" into non-rhotic accents.
    These two statements are quite contrary, aren't they?

    Just correct me if I didn't understand it well.

  3. j4mes_bond25's Avatar

    • Join Date: Dec 2005
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    #43

    Exclamation Re: -less

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenka View Post
    Thank you for the explanation of usage /i/ and /I/ in IPA. I hadn't known it before - I was always wondering what the difference between them is, actually. (By the way, is it correct to use the past perfect tense in the previous sentence?)

    Thank you very much, j4mes_bond25. Well, how shall I call you? James?

    Nonetheless, I can't understand something you wrote. Once you said that " but in American accent which is "rhotic" i.e. where "r" IS pronounced, it becomes "faIr" & hence remains as "diphthong")" and the other you ranked "American English" into non-rhotic accents.
    These two statements are quite contrary, aren't they?

    Just correct me if I didn't understand it well.
    I'm terribly sorry to create the confusion here, due to the rather silly error in "typing".

    Where I said "Rhotic", it's supposed to be "non-rhotic" (England, Australia, New Zealand, etc.) & where I said "Non-rhotic, it's supposed to be "rhotic" (American, Canadian, etc.)

    I've corrected this error in my relevant post & have provided the reason for the change, so that should clear things up now.

    Hence, the CORRECT version should be:

    Non-rhotic accent includes:

    >> MOST of the English accent (ONLY from England & NOT the British accent, since it covers England, Scotland, & Northern Ireland)
    >> Australian accent
    >> New Zealand accent
    >> South African accent
    >> Welsh accent
    >> SOME of the Indian accent
    >> Singaporean accent
    >> Malaysian accent

    Rhotic accent includes:

    >> American accent
    >> Canadian accent
    >> Scottish accent
    >> Irish accent

    RHOTIC = "r" IS pronounced (British)
    NON-RHOTIC = "r" is NOT pronounced (American)

    Once again, do accept my apology for the typing error. Hence, you're RIGHT saying that the two sentences were quite a contrary, for which, you may blame the half a bottle of Malibu I guzzled while composing that particular post ;)

    Hope that clears the confusion now.

    Moral of the story ........................ NEVER DRINK & TYPE ;)

  4. Lenka's Avatar

    • Join Date: May 2004
    • Posts: 863
    #44

    Re: -less

    Quote Originally Posted by j4mes_bond25 View Post
    I'm terribly sorry to create the confusion here, due to the rather silly error in "typing".

    Where I said "Rhotic", it's supposed to be "non-rhotic" (England, Australia, New Zealand, etc.) & where I said "Non-rhotic, it's supposed to be "rhotic" (American, Canadian, etc.)

    I've corrected this error in my relevant post & have provided the reason for the change, so that should clear things up now.

    Hence, the CORRECT version should be:

    Non-rhotic accent includes:

    >> MOST of the English accent (ONLY from England & NOT the British accent, since it covers England, Scotland, & Northern Ireland)
    >> Australian accent
    >> New Zealand accent
    >> South African accent
    >> Welsh accent
    >> SOME of the Indian accent
    >> Singaporean accent
    >> Malaysian accent

    Rhotic accent includes:

    >> American accent
    >> Canadian accent
    >> Scottish accent
    >> Irish accent

    RHOTIC = "r" IS pronounced (British)
    NON-RHOTIC = "r" is NOT pronounced (American)

    Once again, do accept my apology for the typing error. Hence, you're RIGHT saying that the two sentences were quite a contrary, for which, you may blame the half a bottle of Malibu I guzzled while composing that particular post ;)

    Hope that clears the confusion now.

    Moral of the story ........................ NEVER DRINK & TYPE ;)
    Never mind!
    A half bottle of Malibu... that is not just "little" ;)
    (can I say "little" here?)

  5. j4mes_bond25's Avatar

    • Join Date: Dec 2005
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    #45

    Exclamation Re: -less

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenka View Post
    Never mind!
    A half bottle of Malibu... that is not just "little" ;)
    (can I say "little" here?)
    Course you can, as long as this "little" quantity keeps you sober ;)

  6. Lenka's Avatar

    • Join Date: May 2004
    • Posts: 863
    #46

    Re: -less

    Quote Originally Posted by j4mes_bond25 View Post
    In the words like "my, sky, dry" ..... "y" is a "diphthong" i.e. a combination of two vowels i.e. "aI" (however, NOT "ai", since there's a difference between "I" & "i"). "I" is a unstressed short vowel, while "i" is a stressed short vowel.
    I'd like to return to the problems of (written in IPA) /i/ and /I/.

    In the following word, the third letter (i) should be read as /I/ according to my dictionary.
    privacy => /'prIvəsI/

    Why? The "i" is stressed here isn't it?

  7. j4mes_bond25's Avatar

    • Join Date: Dec 2005
    • Posts: 132
    #47

    Exclamation Re: -less

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenka View Post
    I'd like to return to the problems of (written in IPA) /i/ and /I/.

    In the following word, the third letter (i) should be read as /I/ according to my dictionary.
    privacy => /'prIvəsI/

    Why? The "i" is stressed here isn't it?
    There's a difference between /I/ and /i/ (when writing in IPA).

    In the word "Privacy", the correct Phonetic would be:

    /[email protected]/ (in British pronunciation)
    /[email protected]/ (in American pronunciation)

    Hence, whether it's British or American pronunciation, the LAST "i" is always /i/ i.e. a short stressed "i".

    In fact in ANY word, if the "i" sound occurs at the end, then it's all but always /i/ (short stressed vowel). Example of words include (which are usually noun):

    >> activity = /@k.tIv.I.ti/
    >> ability = /@.bIl.I.ti/
    >> mobility = /[email protected]/

  8. Lenka's Avatar

    • Join Date: May 2004
    • Posts: 863
    #48

    Re: -less

    [quote=j4mes_bond25;123519]There's a difference between /I/ and /i/ (when writing in IPA).

    In the word "Privacy", the correct Phonetic would be:

    /[email protected]/ (in British pronunciation)
    /[email protected]/ (in American pronunciation)

    Hence, whether it's British or American pronunciation, the LAST "i" is always /i/ i.e. a short stressed "i".

    In fact in ANY word, if the "i" sound occurs at the end, then it's all but always /i/ (short stressed vowel). Example of words include (which are usually noun):

    >> activity = /@k.tIv.I.ti/
    >> ability = /@.bIl.I.ti/
    >> mobility = /[email protected]/[/quote]

    Oh, I am very sorry, James. In my dictionary (Czech-English and vice versa) they say it should be pronounced with /I/ at the end. Anyway, I had a look on the internet, to the Cambridge Dictionary and it says the same as you do - that it shoulb be prounounced with /i/ at the end.
    I see my Czech-English dictionary isn't that great .


    I ám just having one more question. Have a look at this site: Cambridge Dictionaries Online - Cambridge University Press at the words "happy" and "happily"

    The "i" in the word "happily" is "transcribed" as /I/. Why??? It is unstressed, isn't it?

    I don't understand why the words that you mentioned (activity, mobility etc.) are pronounced with /I/ either! Why is it like this? They are not stressed, either...

  9. j4mes_bond25's Avatar

    • Join Date: Dec 2005
    • Posts: 132
    #49

    Exclamation Re: -less

    Oh, I am very sorry, James. In my dictionary (Czech-English and vice versa) they say it should be pronounced with /I/ at the end. Anyway, I had a look on the internet, to the Cambridge Dictionary and it says the same as you do - that it shoulb be prounounced with /i/ at the end.
    I see my Czech-English dictionary isn't that great .
    I reckon the difference is minuscule & hence isn't given much importance towards the "perfection" of distinguising between /I/ and /i/

    I ám just having one more question. Have a look at this site: Cambridge Dictionaries Online - Cambridge University Press at the words "happy" and "happily"

    The "i" in the word "happily" is "transcribed" as /I/. Why??? It is unstressed, isn't it?

    I don't understand why the words that you mentioned (activity, mobility etc.) are pronounced with /I/ either! Why is it like this? They are not stressed, either...
    Usually, in such words that has "suffix" at the end such as "ty" (activity), "li" (happily) has "i" as /i/. Easiest way to remember, is if there's any "suffix" then change it's phonetics to /i/ ("ty", "li", etc.) AND do the same if the "i" sound occurs AT THE END (usually, when it's letter "y" in it, such as "happ.y", "compan.y", "batty", "matey", "golly", "lolly", etc.

    There are MANY words in English that has different phonetic with they're on their own but the "modification" to it (i.e. if change becomes changeable, etc.), also means "modification" within their phonetics.

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