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    #1

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    Dear teachers,

    Could you please explain differences between the underlined parts of each pair of sentence?

    No.1
    The public authoritites should prohibit people begging in the street.
    The public authoritites should prohibit people's begging in the street.

    No.2
    The magistrate stated that the court appreciated the man's coming forward to give evidence.
    The magistrate stated that the court appreciated the man coming forward to give evidence.


    Looking forward to hearing from you.

    Thank you in advance.

    Jiang

  1. MikeNewYork's Avatar
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    #2

    Re: 's

    Quote Originally Posted by jiang View Post
    Dear teachers,

    Could you please explain differences between the underlined parts of each pair of sentence?

    No.1
    The public authoritites should prohibit people begging in the street.
    The public authoritites should prohibit people's begging in the street.

    No.2
    The magistrate stated that the court appreciated the man's coming forward to give evidence.
    The magistrate stated that the court appreciated the man coming forward to give evidence.


    Looking forward to hearing from you.

    Thank you in advance.

    Jiang
    First a word about structure. One structure is [possessive adjective + gerund]. Since that creates a noun phrase (adjective + noun), the phrase acts as the direct object of the verb.

    The other structure is [noun/objective case pronoun + participle]. The participle (and its phrase) is an adjectival modifier of the pronoun. In this case, the modified pronoun is the direct object of the verb.

    In most cases, both constructions convey the same meaning. Traditionally, grammarians have preferred the [possessive adjective + gerund] form and have objected to the other. These objections have all but gone away by now. Most people give the constructions almost equal weight. As a matter of fact, there are sentences in which the gerund form is very clumsy.

    In both of your sentences, I prefer the noun + participle version.
    Last edited by MikeNewYork; 18-Oct-2006 at 21:21.


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    #3

    Re: 's

    Hi,
    I donít see any objective case pronouns there, Mike. I guess you mean the structure I call Complex Object : I saw her standing there. Itís used with verbs of perception Ė see, watch, notice etc.
    IMHO only the sentences with the Gerund (#1b and #2a) look fine.
    Is it really possible to use Complex object after prohibit and appreciate?? I think it is not.

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    #4

    Re: 's


    Dear Mike,

    Thank you very much for your explanation. So there isn't a strict rule. And both are correct. But you think 'noun+participle' is better.

    Jiang
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork View Post
    First a word about structure. One structure is [possessive adjective + gerund]. Since that creates a noun phrase (adjective + noun), the phrase acts as the direct object of the verb.

    The other structure is [noun/objective case pronoun + participle]. The participle (and its phrase) is an adjectival modifier of the pronoun. In this case, the modified pronoun is the direct object of the verb.

    In most cases, both constructions convey the same meaning. Traditionally, grammarians have preferred the [possessive adjective + gerund] form and have objected to the other. These objections have all but gone away by now. Most people give the constructions almost equal weight. As a matter of fact, there are sentences in which the gerund form is very clumsy.

    In both of your sentences, I prefer the noun + participle version.

  2. MikeNewYork's Avatar
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    #5

    Re: 's

    Quote Originally Posted by jiang View Post

    Dear Mike,

    Thank you very much for your explanation. So there isn't a strict rule. And both are correct. But you think 'noun+participle' is better.

    Jiang
    Sorry, I wasn't clear. I normally use the possessive + gerund unless the resulting sentence is clumsy. In both of your sentences, I preferred the noun/pronoun + participle version. For me, it depends on the sentence.

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    #6

    Re: 's


    I see. Thanks!

    Jiang
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork View Post
    Sorry, I wasn't clear. I normally use the possessive + gerund unless the resulting sentence is clumsy. In both of your sentences, I preferred the noun/pronoun + participle version. For me, it depends on the sentence.

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    #7

    Re: 's

    Quote Originally Posted by Humble View Post
    Hi,
    I donít see any objective case pronouns there, Mike. I guess you mean the structure I call Complex Object : I saw her standing there. Itís used with verbs of perception Ė see, watch, notice etc.
    IMHO only the sentences with the Gerund (#1b and #2a) look fine.
    Is it really possible to use Complex object after prohibit and appreciate?? I think it is not.
    Thanks. I edited the pronoun part. I was lost in a generic discussion of the principles.

    Your comment about verbs of perception are true, but not really on point. There is no alternative form there.

    I don't agree with you about prohibit or appreciate.
    One of Jiang's sentences uses prohibit. Sometimes it needs a "from" after it, but not in all cases.

    I appreciate your granting me an interview.
    I appreciate you granting me an interview.

    Both of those work for me.

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    #8

    Re: 's

    Quote Originally Posted by jiang View Post

    I see. Thanks!

    Jiang
    You're welcome.


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    #9

    Re: 's

    Thanks, Mike.

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    #10

    Re: 's

    Quote Originally Posted by Humble View Post
    Thanks, Mike.
    You're welcome.

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