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  1. #1
    GoldfishLord is offline Member
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    convinced by vs convinced that

    Quote Originally Posted by 5jj View Post
    So, I am not convinced by some of the arguments for claiming that that is not a relative pronoun. I am even less convinced that it is the same class of words as that in I know that he is ill.
    I'd like to know if I'm right in thinking that "convinced" is an actual passive, not an adjective describing his condition, and that, in contrast, "convinced" is an adjective describing his condition, not some sort of passive.
    Last edited by GoldfishLord; 27-Apr-2021 at 01:52.

  2. #2
    probus's Avatar
    probus is offline Moderator
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    Re: convinced by vs convinced that

    Convinced is the past participle of convince, and past participles can serve as adjectives. I think it does so at both places in the quoted passage, but I stand ready to be corrected by grammarians.
    Last edited by probus; 27-Apr-2021 at 01:33. Reason: Typo

  3. #3
    jutfrank's Avatar
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    Re: convinced by vs convinced that

    I think what you say is reasonable. The first case is followed by by, which suggests it's a verb, whereas the second case is modified by less, which suggests it's an adjective. I can't see how that really matters, however.

  4. #4
    Phaedrus's Avatar
    Phaedrus is offline Senior Member
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    Re: convinced by vs convinced that

    Quote Originally Posted by 5jj View Post
    So, I am not convinced by some of the arguments for claiming that that is not a relative pronoun. I am even less convinced that it is the same class of words as that in I know that he is ill.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldfishLord View Post
    I'd like to know if I'm right in thinking that "convinced" is an actual passive, not an adjective describing his condition, and that, in contrast, "convinced" is an adjective describing his condition, not some sort of passive.
    A case can be made for the passive in both instances, which is not to deny the possibility of an adjectival analysis. Consider the active-voice correlates:

    (1a) passive: I am not convinced by some of the arguments that that is not a relative pronoun.
    (1b) active: Some of the arguments do not convince me that that is not a relative pronoun.

    (2a) passive: I am even less convinced that it is the same class of words as that in I know that he is ill.
    (2b) active: [Such arguments] convince me even less that it is the same class of words as that in I know that he is ill.

    GoldfishLord, in case you're looking for the thread from which you quote, it has been moved to the rarely used Linguistics sub-forum of Using English.
    Unabashed Champion of the Elegantly Old-Fashioned

  5. #5
    Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
    Charlie Bernstein is offline VIP Member
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    Re: convinced by vs convinced that

    Or: One tells us you're convinced, and one tells us what convinced you.
    I'm not a teacher. I speak American English. I've tutored writing at the University of Southern Maine and have done a good deal of copy editing and writing, occasionally for publication.

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