On my way home (part of speech)

[Phaedrus]

I think that when we are discussing word classes/parts of speech, or indeed any aspect of English grammar, it's probably best to start with words/phrases/sentences that have actually been produced by native speakers.

Unfortunately, that approach would rule out most arguments from ungrammaticality, so we'd have to throw out an untold number of findings from modern syntax. Say goodbye to Huddleston and Pullum's The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language and to much of Quirk et al. Both of those grammars feature sentences that the grammarians themselves invented for the sake of grammatical analysis. At least we'd still have Jespersen and Poutsma. They stuck to sentences actually produced by native speakers.

But, then, if I am a native speaker, as I am, and I produce a sentence for the sake of analysis, is it not a sentence actually produced by a native speaker?

 

[jutfrank]

Is (1a) not much worse than (2a)?

Yes, I agree it's worse. Let me think about this a bit more.

 

[Phaedrus]

I think that when we are discussing word classes/parts of speech, or indeed any aspect of English grammar, it's probably best to start with words/phrases/sentences that have actually been produced by native speakers.

This is pure hypocrisy when one considers the grammars you sometimes cite in support of points that you make. It is self-evident that any sentence that is produced by a native speaker, whether for a real-life context or not, is a sentence that is actually produced by a native speaker. If you find my sentences unnatural, say so. Don't tell me that, in analyzing the grammar of English, it is best to do what probably not a single grammarian today does. That's preposterous.

 

[Phaedrus]

I think that when we are discussing word classes/parts of speech, or indeed any aspect of English grammar, it's probably best to start with words/phrases/sentences that have actually been produced by native speakers.

When you make up examples sentences for learners that you have never used before, do you perceive yourself to be following your own misguided advice here?

 

[5jj]

Wrong side of bed this morning?

 

[Phaedrus]

Can you think of a single grammar book that follows your advice? The only one I can think of is Biber et al., a corpus-based grammar. I've never seen you cite it.

 

[5jj]

Biber et al., a corpus-based grammar. I've never seen you cite it.

A quick search reveals that I have cited it five times since the beginning of May.

 

[Phaedrus]

quick search rveals that I have cited it five times since the beginning of May.

Keep it up, then, and abandon all example creation for students, as well as the consultation of any grammar books whose authors create their own examples.