Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 22
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Chinese
      • Home Country:
      • China
      • Current Location:
      • China

    • Join Date: Nov 2003
    • Posts: 2,715
    #1

    v-ed + n. and n.+v-ed

    Dear teachers,

    I found 'v-ed + n.' and 'n.+v-ed ' very confusing. Please read the following pairs of sentences:
    No.1
    a. All opponents or SUSPETCTED OPPONENTS of the militoary government are being detained.
    b. All opponents or OPPONENTS SUSPECTED of the military government are being detained.

    No. 2
    a. One of the ADOPTED METHODS is to organize visits to other factories.
    b. One of the METHODS ADOPTED is to organize visits to other factories.

    I cannot see the difference between 'a' and 'b' in the two pairs. Could you please kindly explain them to me?

    Looking forward to hearing from you.
    Thank you in advance.

    Jiang

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • UK
      • Current Location:
      • Laos

    • Join Date: Nov 2002
    • Posts: 57,864
    #2

    Re: v-ed + n. and n.+v-ed

    suspected oponents = people who are believed to be opponents
    opponents suspected = these are opponents are suspected, but there may be other opponents who aren't

  1. BobK's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • UK
      • Current Location:
      • UK

    • Join Date: Jul 2006
    • Posts: 16,038
    #3

    Re: v-ed + n. and n.+v-ed

    Very neat summary

    In relation to Jiang's examples:

    No.1
    a. All opponents or SUSPETCTED OPPONENTS of the militoary government are being detained.
    b. All opponents or OPPONENTS SUSPECTED of the military government are being detained.

    No. 2
    a. One of the ADOPTED METHODS is to organize visits to other factories.
    b. One of the METHODS ADOPTED is to organize visits to other factories.
    1a is OK. 1b is not - if you want to put a preposition in place of of, it would be by, but this changes the focus a bit (and makes it slightly misleading: they're suspected by the security services).

    2a is talking only about things actually done - only those methods that have actually been adopted (maybe only two or three). 2b refers to all possible methods, from which it singles out only the ones adopted. The difference here is very slight; I think 2b is the more common version.

    b

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Chinese
      • Home Country:
      • China
      • Current Location:
      • China

    • Join Date: Nov 2003
    • Posts: 2,715
    #4

    Re: v-ed + n. and n.+v-ed

    Dear Tdol,
    I am afraid your explanation is too simply for me to understand.
    No.1 suspected oponents = people who are believed to be opponents
    Here people refer to certain people, not people in general. Is that right?
    No.2 opponents suspected = these are opponents are suspected, but there may be other opponents who aren't. Here opponents also refers to certain opponents. Is that right?

    Looking forward to hearing from you.
    Thank you in advance.
    Jiang

    Quote Originally Posted by Tdol View Post
    suspected oponents = people who are believed to be opponents
    opponents suspected = these are opponents are suspected, but there may be other opponents who aren't

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Chinese
      • Home Country:
      • China
      • Current Location:
      • China

    • Join Date: Nov 2003
    • Posts: 2,715
    #5

    Re: v-ed + n. and n.+v-ed

    Dear BobK,
    Thank you very much for your explanation.
    In No.1 my question is 'whether there is any difference between 'suspected opponents' and 'opponents suspected'. Could you please explain them to me? Tdol explained them to me but the explanation is too simple for to to understand.
    No.2
    Did you mean 2a means the methods have already been adopted?
    And 2b means there are several methods for people to choose. But if they choose they can only choose one method (single out can only be followed by singular noun?)?

    Looking forward to hearing from you.

    Thank you in advance.

    Jiang
    Quote Originally Posted by BobK View Post
    Very neat summary

    In relation to Jiang's examples:



    1a is OK. 1b is not - if you want to put a preposition in place of of, it would be by, but this changes the focus a bit (and makes it slightly misleading: they're suspected by the security services).

    2a is talking only about things actually done - only those methods that have actually been adopted (maybe only two or three). 2b refers to all possible methods, from which it singles out only the ones adopted. The difference here is very slight; I think 2b is the more common version.

    b

  2. BobK's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • UK
      • Current Location:
      • UK

    • Join Date: Jul 2006
    • Posts: 16,038
    #6

    Re: v-ed + n. and n.+v-ed

    Quote Originally Posted by jiang View Post
    Dear BobK,
    Thank you very much for your explanation.
    In No.1 my question is 'whether there is any difference between 'suspected opponents' and 'opponents suspected'. Could you please explain them to me? Tdol explained them to me but the explanation is too simple for to to understand.
    No.2
    Did you mean 2a means the methods have already been adopted?
    And 2b means there are several methods for people to choose. But if they choose they can only choose one method (single out can only be followed by singular noun?)?

    Looking forward to hearing from you.

    Thank you in advance.

    Jiang
    1 The difference between the phrases is that all 'suspected opponents' are under suspicion, while 'opponents suspected' implies that there are some opponents who aren't (they may be known to be opponents, but there is something that they are not under suspicion of - murder, perhaps). That said, your sentence 1b is unacceptable for the reason I gave: people are either 'opponents of the government' or 'suspected by the government'. In each case the preposition refers to the word it's next to.

    2 They both mean that the methods have been adopted; the meanings are very close. In most contexts, I'd choose 2b.

    b

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Chinese
      • Home Country:
      • China
      • Current Location:
      • China

    • Join Date: Nov 2003
    • Posts: 2,715
    #7

    Re: v-ed + n. and n.+v-ed

    &
    Dear BobK,
    Thank you so much for your further explanation. Now I understand No.1.
    Could you please tell me why you prefer 2b? Is it more natural than 2a?

    Looking forward to hearing from you.
    Thank you advance.

    Jiang
    Quote Originally Posted by BobK View Post
    1 The difference between the phrases is that all 'suspected opponents' are under suspicion, while 'opponents suspected' implies that there are some opponents who aren't (they may be known to be opponents, but there is something that they are not under suspicion of - murder, perhaps). That said, your sentence 1b is unacceptable for the reason I gave: people are either 'opponents of the government' or 'suspected by the government'. In each case the preposition refers to the word it's next to.

    2 They both mean that the methods have been adopted; the meanings are very close. In most contexts, I'd choose 2b.

    b

  3. RonBee's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • American English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Feb 2003
    • Posts: 16,551
    #8

    Re: v-ed + n. and n.+v-ed

    Quote Originally Posted by jiang View Post
    a. All opponents or SUSPETCTED OPPONENTS of the militoary government are being detained.
    b. All opponents or OPPONENTS SUSPECTED of the military government are being detained.
    a. All opponents or suspected opponents of the military government are being detained.
    b. All opponents or opponents suspected (Suspected of what?) by the military government are being detained.

    Quote Originally Posted by jiang View Post
    a. One of the ADOPTED METHODS is to organize visits to other factories.
    b. One of the METHODS ADOPTED is to organize visits to other factories.
    The two sentences mean the same thing.



    (Say:
    I have found "it" very confusing OR "It" is very confusing to me.)

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Chinese
      • Home Country:
      • China
      • Current Location:
      • China

    • Join Date: Nov 2003
    • Posts: 2,715
    #9

    Re: v-ed + n. and n.+v-ed


    Dear RonBee,
    This is too bad because the sentences are there for us to distinguish the difference between each pair of sentences. That's why I found it hard.

    Have a nice weekend.

    Jiang



    Quote Originally Posted by RonBee View Post
    a. All opponents or suspected opponents of the military government are being detained.
    b. All opponents or opponents suspected (Suspected of what?) by the military government are being detained.



    The two sentences mean the same thing.




    (Say:
    I have found "it" very confusing OR "It" is very confusing to me.)

  4. RonBee's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • American English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Feb 2003
    • Posts: 16,551
    #10

    Post Re: v-ed + n. and n.+v-ed

    Quote Originally Posted by jiang View Post

    Dear RonBee,
    This is too bad because the sentences are there for us to distinguish the difference between each pair of sentences. That's why I found it hard.

    Have a nice weekend.

    Jiang
    I understand the problem. You are trying to learn a foreign language, and the person making the test apparently falls short of being an expert. (I could be a diplomat. ) For example, the word suspect is a problem. You can't just be suspected. You have to be suspected of something. The sentences in the first pair certainly differ in meaning, although what the second one means is a guess, since it is so clumsy.

    ~R

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •