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    #1

    Thumbs up intention in the past

    He said he would not be coming to the party.
    He said he would not come to the party.
    He said he were not coming to the party.

    What is the difference between these three sentences?
    ---------

    If he will eat so much chocolate, it is not surprising he is so fat.
    Does this sentence express condition to you?

    for your answer.

  1. BobK's Avatar
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    #2

    Re: intention in the past

    Quote Originally Posted by svartnik View Post
    He said he would not be coming to the party.
    He said he would not come to the party.
    He said he was not coming to the party.
    What is the difference between these three sentences?
    ---------
    If he will eat so much chocolate, it is not surprising he is so fat.
    Does this sentence express condition to you?
    for your answer.
    ...would not be coming... - he was not able to come/something was going to prevent him
    ...would not come... - he had made a decision not to come
    ...was not coming ... - one or other of the above two, and he's not saying which (either for 'political' reasons, or just because it's not relevant - what matters is that he's not going to come)

    He would not be coming - 'I won't be coming - I'm baby-sitting that night.'
    We would not come - 'I won't come. I can't stand her friends.'
    He was not coming - 'Give my love to Sally - I'm not coming tonight.''

    The second (that is fourth) sentence does express a condition, but the condition refers to his state of mind (his choice); there's heavy stress on will.



    b


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    #3

    Re: intention in the past

    Thanks Bob


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    #4

    Re: intention in the past

    Quote Originally Posted by BobK View Post
    The second (that is fourth) sentence does express a condition, but the condition refers to his state of mind (his choice); there's heavy stress on will.

    b
    Hello Bob

    Is it not a case of false conditional?

  2. #5

    Re: intention in the past

    Hi,
    I have not heard the term "false" conditional before...but anyway...
    I just want to add that the use of "will" as in "if he will eat..." is unusual in my part of the world; one might say here : "if he insists on eating so much chocolate" or even "if he persists in eating so much chocolate". I think what BobK is saying is that there is a conditonal meaning if you see it as a true conditional in the present:
    1)if it is true that he eats so much chocolate (the speaker may not be sure that he does eat a lot of chocolate...it could be a rumour) than I am not (or will not be) surprised he is fat. This seems almost a half-conditional, perhaps this is what you mean by "false" conditional...almost a cause and effect.
    OR
    b)If he persists in eating so much chocolate, he persists in being fat

    Again, this is all in meaning rather than structure, so if you personally see/hear any of these implied meanings you can relate better to the structure.

    Just my thoughts!


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    #6

    Re: intention in the past

    Quote Originally Posted by svartnik View Post
    He said he would not be coming to the party.
    He said he would not come to the party.
    He said he was not coming to the party.
    What is the difference between these three sentences?
    Aren't these simply ways to report someone's direct speech, eg.

    "I'm not going to the party tonight" ?

    I say this because of Svartnik's thread title, "intention in the past". With reported speech, it's important to remember that these could very well still be current events, ie. the party hasn't been held yet and while the subject has expressed an opinion, it doesn't necessarily mean that he has missed the party. In other words, reported speech does not give us any indication that the event is finished. That's not its purpose in language. Its purpose is to tell the listener that the present speaker is not quoting someone directly.

    Of course, there are the potential nuances that have been aptly described by Bob.
    Last edited by riverkid; 09-Mar-2007 at 20:58.


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    #7

    Re: intention in the past

    Quote Originally Posted by riverkid View Post
    Aren't these simply ways to report someone's direct speech, eg.

    "I'm not going to the party tonight" ?

    I say this because of Svartnik's thread title, "intention in the past". With reported speech, it's important to remember that these could very well still be current events, ie. the party hasn't been held yet and while the subject has expressed an opinion, it doesn't necessarily mean that he has missed the party. In other words, reported speech does not give us any indication that the event is finished. That's not its purpose in language. Its purpose is to tell the listener that the present speaker is not quoting someone directly.

    Of course, there are the potential nuances that have been aptly described by Bob.
    Hello Riverkid

    "If he will eat so much chocolate, it is not surprising he is so fat."
    My question of whether it is a false conditional is related to this sentence.
    Anyway, I appreciate all efforts.
    Thank you

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    #8

    Re: intention in the past

    Quote Originally Posted by svartnik View Post

    If he will eat so much chocolate, it is not surprising he is so fat.
    Does this sentence express condition to you?
    Yes, in a sense; it not being surprising that he is so fat is dependent on his insisting on eating so much chocolate. If he changed the first part, he would lose weight, though the form suggests that the speaker doesn't think this will happen.


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    #9

    Re: intention in the past

    Quote Originally Posted by fiona bramble View Post
    Hi,

    1)if it is true that he eats so much chocolate (the speaker may not be sure that he does eat a lot of chocolate...it could be a rumour) than I am not (or will not be) surprised he is fat. This seems almost a half-conditional, perhaps this is what you mean by "false" conditional...almost a cause and effect.
    Hello

    Fiona, looking at the sentence for the first time, my reading of it was exactly the same as this one of yours above
    Thank you everbody for your precious help, I greatly appreciate it

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