I regret + ing and + to infinitive

[CarlaSofia]

Terrible doubt!

I was taught that regret + ing is used to convey the idea of being sorry about sth done or not deon in the past. And regret + to infinitive is used in a formal register to communicate sth (I / we regret to tell you .....). Now, I happened to come across in a coursebook, the expression " I regret having to say something bad about ...." (in a letter, meaning she/he felt sorry to have to say....) So, is that an exception???? REGRET + ING to communicate sth?

HELP!!!!!
Thanks in advance!

 

[Humble]

Hi, CarlaSofia,
As far as I know, the only case of using the Infinitive is the set expression you've mentioned. have to does not fall in to the say/tell/inform category, that's why the usual Gerund -IMHO.
Regards

 

[CarlaSofia]

Hi, CarlaSofia,
As far as I know, the only case of using the Infinitive is the set expression you've mentioned. have to does not fall in to the say/tell/inform category, that's why the usual Gerund -IMHO.
Regards

Thanks Humble!
But still I don't know whether the use of regret + ing is restricted to events in the past, or there are exceptions to refer to a future/present action (i.e. "I regret having to say...")
Thanks anyway

 

[queenbu]

Hello Carla, According to Michael Swan...
Regret+-ing form refers back to the past-something that one is sorry one did.
I regret leaving school at 14-it was a big mistake.
Regret+infinitive is used mostly in announcements of bad news.
We regret to inform passengers that the 14.50 train for Cardiff will leave approximately 37 minutes late.
We regret to say that we are unable to help you.
That's exactly how you know it. The only way out I can find is that he says 'used mostly in...' Whilst waiting for an answer from the experts, I'd like to add a question of my own. Couldn't we say 'I regret having left school at 14' instead of 'I regret leaving school at 14'?

Edit

The verbs in the following table can be followed by either an infinitive or a gerund, and there will be virtually no difference in the meaning of the two sentences. I like to play basketball in the park. I like playing basketball in the park.

attempt
begin
continue
hate like
love
neglect
prefer regret
can't stand
stand
start
This is what I found on Gerunds and Infinitives: Their Noun Roles

 

[CarlaSofia]

Hello Carla, According to Michael Swan...
Regret+-ing form refers back to the past-something that one is sorry one did.
I regret leaving school at 14-it was a big mistake.
Regret+infinitive is used mostly in announcements of bad news.
We regret to inform passengers that the 14.50 train for Cardiff will leave approximately 37 minutes late.
We regret to say that we are unable to help you.
That's exactly how you know it. The only way out I can find is that he says 'used mostly in...' Whilst waiting for an answer from the experts, I'd like to add a question of my own. Couldn't we say 'I regret having left school at 14' instead of 'I regret leaving school at 14'?

Edit

The verbs in the following table can be followed by either an infinitive or a gerund, and there will be virtually no difference in the meaning of the two sentences. I like to play basketball in the park. I like playing basketball in the park.

attempt
begin
continue
hate like
love
neglect
prefer regret
can't stand
stand
start
This is what I found on Gerunds and Infinitives: Their Noun Roles

Hello, Queenbu

Thanks for your help (I have Michael Swan's book as well!).
As for your querie, you can either say "I regret leaving" or "having left".
Sei Italiano?

Ciao

 

[Dr. Jamshid Ibrahim]

Thanks Humble!
But still I don't know whether the use of regret + ing is restricted to events in the past, or there are exceptions to refer to a future/present action (i.e. "I regret having to say...")
Thanks anyway

Regret is one of a group of verbs (remember, forget) which can take the infinitive or gerund depending upon the meaning. Regret in the past takes the gerund; regret in the present takes the infinitive:

Regret in the past
I regret (2) trusting (1) her.
This is because gerund is retrospective in view and implies experience.

Regret in the present
I regret (1) to say (2) we cannot accept it. This means infinitive is prospective ie looks forward in time.

 

[queenbu]

What was the whole sentence, Carla?
P.S. No, I'm Maltese.

 

[queenbu]

Regret is one of a group of verbs (remember, forget) which can take the infinitive or gerund depending upon the meaning. Regret in the past takes the gerund; regret in the present takes the infinitive:
Regret in the past
I regret (2) trusting (1) her.
This is because gerund is retrospective in view and implies experience.
Regret in the present
I regret (1) to say (2) we cannot accept it. This means infinitive is prospective ie looks forward in time.

Isn't it ok to say 'I regret having to leave now but it's late.'?

 

[Dr. Jamshid Ibrahim]

Isn't it ok to say 'I regret having to leave now but it's late.'?

No, it isn't becase regret is the first (prospective view).

 

[queenbu]

No, it isn't becase regret is the first (prospective view).

I know that by that criterion it's not ok. But it doesn't sound wrong to me. I tried googling it and have in fact found it to be used, for example, in My Monster: reasons: “I regret having to leave, but I am currently experiencing medical issues that prevent me from continuing in this position."
Then I went on UK pages only and found, in :: ST Personal training ::,
I regret having to leave his services, however due to relocating I was unable to continue.
This last sentence makes me wonder. I would have writtenone of these two:
1. I regret having had to leave his services, however I was unable to continue.
2. I regret having to leave his services however I am unable to continue.
Am I complicating things?

 

[Dr. Jamshid Ibrahim]

I know that by that criterion it's not ok. But it doesn't sound wrong to me. I tried googling it and have in fact found it to be used, for example, in My Monster: reasons: “I regret having to leave, but I am currently experiencing medical issues that prevent me from continuing in this position."
Then I went on UK pages only and found, in :: ST Personal training ::,
I regret having to leave his services, however due to relocating I was unable to continue.
This last sentence makes me wonder. I would have writtenone of these two:
1. I regret having had to leave his services, however I was unable to continue.
2. I regret having to leave his services however I am unable to continue.
Am I complicating things?

If you say:
I regret having...
You change the meaning. This usage of regret is in the past not in the present (because gerund looks back) or perhaps it is informal. Informal usge can be contradictory to written language custom but as long as the message is clear or gets across it harms no body. Grammar rules can be broken or even changed.

 

[fiona bramble]

I may have missed the meaning of the question, but nobody seems to have mentioned that the use of the semi-modal "have to" in the gerund form is not an indicator of the past tense; in fact, its use allows the speaker to communicate regret in the present because it is an expression of regret of the necessity of a present or future act. Technically, it is in the past in that the sense of necessity has been already established but the action that follows could be in progress or about to happen.

Also:

Originally Posted by queenbu
Isn't it ok to say 'I regret having to leave now but it's late.'?

No, it isn't becase regret is the first (prospective view).
I completely disagree with this (see above!)


Hello, Queenbu

Thanks for your help (I have Michael Swan's book as well!).
As for your querie, you can either say "I regret leaving" or "having left".

I'm sorry, but I don't agree that "having left" is acceptable either. Without the modal meaning, regret + gerund does carry a past meaning and therefore the use of "having" (which can be a tense marker, especially in reduced adverb clauses) is redundant.

Sorry, I've made a bit of a hodge podge of commenting & quoting
Love to hear your thoughts!

 

[queenbu]

I may have missed the meaning of the question, but nobody seems to have mentioned that the use of the semi-modal "have to" in the gerund form is not an indicator of the past tense; in fact, its use allows the speaker to communicate regret in the present because it is an expression of regret of the necessity of a present or future act. Technically, it is in the past in that the sense of necessity has been already established but the action that follows could be in progress or about to happen.

Also:

Originally Posted by queenbu
Isn't it ok to say 'I regret having to leave now but it's late.'?

No, it isn't becase regret is the first (prospective view).
I completely disagree with this (see above!)


Hello, Queenbu

Thanks for your help (I have Michael Swan's book as well!).
As for your querie, you can either say "I regret leaving" or "having left".

I'm sorry, but I don't agree that "having left" is acceptable either. Without the modal meaning, regret + gerund does carry a past meaning and therefore the use of "having" (which can be a tense marker, especially in reduced adverb clauses) is redundant.

Sorry, I've made a bit of a hodge podge of commenting & quoting
Love to hear your thoughts!

So you're saying that it's correct to say 'I regret having to leave now but it's late' but it isn't correct to say 'I regret having left school at 14', right?

 

[CarlaSofia]

So you're saying that it's correct to say 'I regret having to leave now but it's late' but it isn't correct to say 'I regret having left school at 14', right?

Thanks you all!
Fiona, your explanation couldn't have been any clearer. I really appreciate that. The question of breaking rules in grammar is no good for teachers' health, is it?
What's hodge podge?

 

[fiona bramble]

So you're saying that it's correct to say 'I regret having to leave now but it's late' but it isn't correct to say 'I regret having left school at 14', right?

Whew...that's exactly what I'm saying...but remember that (in your examples) the first "having" is actually "having to", a semi-modal in -ing form, not "having" + p.p." as in your second sentence, which is a tense shift.:-D

 

[fiona bramble]

Thanks you all!
Fiona, your explanation couldn't have been any clearer. I really appreciate that. The question of breaking rules in grammar is no good for teachers' health, is it?
What's hodge podge?

I'm glad you figured it out! Yes, we teachers can sure get ourselves in a tizzy. Uh, hodge podge...a mixed-up mess, a jumble...;-)

 

[Humble]

Hi,
I understand the choice between simple/perfect gerund this way:
If we take another verb, say, deny, simple gerund can refer either to the present or to the past, without a context it’s ambiguous, because there are no time markers.
Diana denies visiting Ahmad. =
a) She says she doesn’t.
b) She says she didn’t.
To avoid ambiguity we could mention when it happened.
Diana denies visiting him last Sunday.
The Perfect Gerund would be superfluous.

Diana denies having visited Ahmad.
The Perfect Gerund indicates clearly the past.

Regards

 

[queenbu]

I regret leaving school at 14-it was a big mistake.. Couldn't we say 'I regret having left school at 14' instead of 'I regret leaving school at 14'?

Diana denies visiting Ahmad. =
a) She says she doesn’t.
b) She says she didn’t.
To avoid ambiguity we could mention when it happened.
Diana denies visiting him last Sunday.
The Perfect Gerund would be superfluous.
Diana denies having visited Ahmad.
The Perfect Gerund indicates clearly the past.

That's exactly what I meant, Humble!
What is the Perfect Gerund?

 

[Humble]

It's having+Participle II.

 

[queenbu]

Thanks Humble. I was writing the answer and didn't feel like looking it up. Thanks.
I'd like fiona to have a look at this please:
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