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    #1

    relative/appositive clauses

    Please which of the following sentences are correct? Which are relative clauses? Which are appositive clauses? Does "in" make "people" and "states" in 1b and 2b respectively definite? If yes, why? if no, why? Can one restate 1a and 2a as in 3 and 4 respectively?

    Please support your response with the appropriate rules.


    1a. New knowledge has been gained about people in poverty

    1b. New knowledge of has been gained about the people in poverty


    2a. The 1980s saw the rise of a new idea about the developmental role of states in Third World societies

    2b. The 1980s saw the rise of a new idea about the developmental role of the states in Third World societies.


    3. Can one restate 1a as follows?:
    New knowledge has been gained about some people
    The people live in poverty

    4. Can one restate 2a as follows?:
    The 1980s saw the rise of a new idea about the development role of some states
    The states are in Third World societies

    Thank you for your anticipated help.

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    #2

    Re: relative/appositive clauses

    I am not sure about your use of 'some' in both cases; I think the omission of the article makes it general and all-inclusive.

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    #3

    Re: relative/appositive clauses

    Could you explain or give some hints that will enable a non-native speaker know that what I have up here is general and all-inclusive?

    I do understand other general patterns like "dogs are barking animals".

    I am more particular about the patterns above. So what in the sentences make them general?

    Thank you.

  1. Casiopea's Avatar

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    #4

    Re: relative/appositive clauses

    Hello, kooiu.

    First, what are your best answers, and why? (Note please, we do not help with assignments.) Second, relative clauses are headed by a relative pronoun (e.g., that, who, whom, which, when, where). Third, definite article the tell us which people in poverty. That is, aside from being poor, which people are we talking about; e.g., the poor we spoke of yesterday? Lastly, why are you rephrasing 1a and 2a? Your answer will help me determine whether your examples work or not.

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    #5

    Re: relative/appositive clauses

    Hello Casiopea,

    Thank you for your prompt resonse. You have almost resolved my problem by including which people?.

    I know that when a sentence can answer the question "which people/states", then the definite article is appropriate in the sentence, as in 1a and 2a.

    When a sentence can answer the question "what kind/type/class/category of people/states", then the indefinite article is in order.

    My best answers then will be as follows:

    1a. New knowledge has been gained about people in poverty
    it answers the question: what type/class/category of people? Then the indefinite article is appropriate here

    1b. New knowledge of has been gained about the people in poverty
    this should answer the question: which people? But, it appears that 1b cannot answer this question as long as the sentence is an introduction

    2a. The 1980s saw the rise of a new idea about the developmental role of states in Third World societies
    it answers the question: what type/class/category of states? Then the indefinite article is appropriate here

    2b. The 1980s saw the rise of a new idea about the developmental role of the states in Third World societies.
    this should answer the question: which states? But, it appears that 1b cannot answer this question as long as the sentence is an introduction

    Please correct me.

  2. Casiopea's Avatar

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    #6

    Re: relative/appositive clauses

    Quote Originally Posted by kooiu View Post
    1b. New knowledge of has been gained about the people in poverty

    But, it appears that 1b cannot answer this question as long as the sentence is an introduction
    Unless, that is, you add it in, like this, the people in poverty that we spoke of yesterday. In that case, the works.

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    #7

    Re: relative/appositive clauses

    Hello Casiopea,
    Thank you very much for your help. I began to see clearly the inclusion of which people and your examples. Your last response completely resolved my puzzle. Thank you again for your help.

  3. Casiopea's Avatar

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    #8

    Re: relative/appositive clauses

    You're most welcome. Glad we could help.

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