is firstly correct

[sameer1728]

An english teacher once told me that while enumerating points ,you should never say"Firstly" .In good english "First " is more appropriate.
"secondly",Thirdly" are correct
Is it true?

 

[BobK]

An english teacher once told me that while enumerating points ,you should never say"Firstly" .In good english "First " is more appropriate.
"secondly",Thirdly" are correct
Is it true?

I've met this 'rule', but I don't believe many current authorities enforce it; Swan, for example - 157.10 - allows both. My own view is that a list that mixes a cardinal with ordinals (First, Secondly, Thirdly...) looks rather ungainly - but I recognize that people who do it do it because they were told to at school many years ago. ;-)

b

 

[sameer1728]

I've met this 'rule', but I don't believe many current authorities enforce it; Swan, for example - 157.10 - allows both. My own view is that a list that mixes a cardinal with ordinals (First, Secondly, Thirdly...) looks rather ungainly - but I recognize that people who do it do it because they were told to at school many years ago. ;-)

b

got it but what's your advice being a teacher of English in England?
Should I continue following the rule?

 

[BobK]

got it but what's your advice being a teacher of English in England?
Should I continue following the rule?

Well I don't; I think enforcing it is just adding another inconsistency to the already daunting morass of inconsistencies that face English language learners.

b

 

[nyggus]

I was once said that instead of using 'firstly', 'secondly', 'thirdly',... one might simply use 'first', 'second', 'third',... Is it a good rule for any writing (for example, academic writing)?

Nyggus

 

[Casiopea]

Here's a UK source: Dictionary of English - first <i>or</i> firstly

Here's a USA source: firstly, first. The Columbia Guide to Standard American English. 1993




This is from Lynch's Guide to Grammar and Style:

'The jury is still out on whether to use first or firstly, second or secondly, &c. Traditional usage had first, secondly, thirdly, but this is too inconsistent for modern taste. Most guides prefer just plain old first, second, third, and so forth, without the -ly ending.'​

Here's one person's thoughts (from WORD COURT ARCHIVES)

'“First,” “second” and “third” at the beginnings of sentences are traditional too. People have been using these words in this way for about 600 years. “Firstly” has almost as long a history, but “first” has two advantages: It’s a syllable shorter, and it sounds less pompous than “firstly.” '​

Randomhouse.com's firstly vs first:

In my undergraduate days, I had an English professor redline that word out of a paper I wrote, along with the terms (equally offensive to him) firstly, secondly, and lastly. He wrote next to each deletion the comment, "no such word" in bold, red ink. I've spent the last 15 years or so...editing memos and business letters to remove this use of "-ly" as a means of introducing a series of examples or arguments....After all this effort, is there really nothing wrong with firstly, secondly, or lastly?​

'Most usage authorities during the last half century, from Wilson Follett and Jacques Barzun (Modern American Usage, 1966) to The New York Times Manual of Style and Usage (1999), have pretty much agreed with your professor and recommended "No -ly," on the grounds that the extra syllable is...well...extra. A current, highly regarded usage book that remains neutral, acknowledging (with many citations) the historicity of both varieties, is Merriam Webster's Dictionary of English Usage.'

Read more here...
​

 

[sameer1728]

Hello Bobk,
YOu are right about inconsistancies but ironically we (people who use this language but is not our first language) love and respect it for it's "silly"rules/inconsistancies and wish to practice them.:-D
it's like a saying "converts are more pure"

 

[Casiopea]

"converts are more pure"

So, which will you be using? :-D

 

[sameer1728]

So, which will you be using? :-D

personally I prefer being conventional esspecially when it's about English.

 

[Casiopea]

And so...? :-D

 

[sameer1728]

And so...? :-D

will be using first,secondly.....

 

[bianca]

IMO, firstly sounds awkward. '-ly' is totally redundant when there is 1st, 2nd and so on. We dress words up by adding 'ly' to them, as though putting a hat on a horse.:-D Anyway, if I were to choose to write firstly, I would be consistent with the ending 'ly' for the other adverbs as well (secondly...)

 

[Casiopea]

bianca, good points; however, they have been covered already. (It's a good idea to read and digest the entire thread before posting. It saves our readers time and effort, as well as saves us the thread space. ;-))

 

[Delmobile]

Chiming in to this very entertaining thread, what with the pure converts and the hat-wearing horses:

To me the disadvantage is when you get to "thirdly." There's just something about it that sounds ridiculous. And then there's the problem of not being able to go on; there's no fourthly or fifthly. (Thank God.)

And although it ends in -ly it's not an adverb. "Okay, guys, we're going to practice what we've learned about CPR. Who wants to go firstly?"

[disclaimer: native speaker but not teacher]

 

[Casiopea]

And although it ends in -ly it's not an adverb. "Okay, guys, we're going to practice what we've learned about CPR. Who wants to go firstly?"

There's a similar discussion going on here, (First, Firstly)(Ê×ÏÈ), At first (ÆðÏÈ); Last, Lastly, At Last ( µÚ 23 Â¥ Song "At Last")[ÓêÏïÑ°Ïã].

 

[sameer1728]

And so...? :-D

So I will use first,secondly.....

 

[Casiopea]

So I will use first,secondly.....

OK, but please remember that both camps, A. and B., agree on one thing. Consistency. In other words, there are two choices, A. or B., not three:

A. First, second, third, ...
B. Firstly, secondly, thirdly,...

 

[sameer1728]

And so...? :-D

so I will use first,secondly,.......

 

[nyggus]

OK, but please remember that both camps, A. and B., agree on one thing. Consistency. In other words, there are two choices, A. or B., not three:

A. First, second, third, ...
B. Firstly, secondly, thirdly,...

so I will use first,secondly,.......

So it seems you're picking the option that is incorrect... :roll:

Nyggus

 

[BobK]

So it seems you're picking the option that is incorrect... :roll:

Nyggus

Not incorrect - at least in BE; just rather old-fashioned (obeying a prescriptive rule that is no longer widely applied).

b