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  1. whitemoon's Avatar
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    #1

    No sooner

    No sooner had I reached there than I will see you.
    Is the above sentence right?


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    #2

    Re: No sooner

    No.
    No sooner had I reached there when it poured with rain

    As soon as I reach there I will contact/ring/come to see you.

  2. whitemoon's Avatar
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    #3

    Re: No sooner

    Thank you.
    "Had reached" and "will see" are right in tense agreement, aren't they?


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    #4

    Re: No sooner

    No.
    'had reached' indicates that you had been travelling for a while and had finally got the to the place you wanted. It is now over, past, completed.
    "as soon as' indicates that at the moment you 'had reached there', you did something - you contacted me. It is also now done, in the past.
    (((Note that in the first sentence I gave you, 'poured' is past tense.)))
    So, you can't then say, you will contact me because that indicates, "some time in the future".
    You would use 'will' as in the second sentence I gave earlier: as soon as I reach there=I am still travelling, but when I do get there, then I will come to see you.
    Last edited by David L.; 21-Dec-2007 at 11:04.

  3. BobK's Avatar
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    #5

    Re: No sooner

    ...And you can avoid the past perfect altogether if you elide the 'had': "No sooner said than done".

    b

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    #6

    Re: No sooner

    Quote Originally Posted by David L. View Post
    No.
    No sooner had I reached there when it poured with rain

    As soon as I reach there I will contact/ring/come to see you.
    The following authorities feel otherwise:

    The American HeritageŽ Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition.
    USAGE NOTE: No sooner, as a comparative adverb, should be followed by than not when, as in these typical examples: No sooner had she come than the maid knocked. I had no sooner left than she called.

    (However, the rules pertaining to "scarcely, "hardly" and "barely" are different).

    A clause following scarcely is correctly introduced by when or before; the use of than, though common, is still unacceptable to some grammarians: The meeting had scarcely begun when (or before but not than) it was interrupted.

    Cambridge Dictionary of American English

    If no sooner had one thing happened than a second thing happens, the second thing happens immediately after the first:
    No sooner had I started mowing the lawn, than it started raining.

    Cambridge Dictionary of American Idioms

    no sooner do something than do something else
    immediately after one thing happens another thing happens. "I had no sooner gotten my bags unpacked than I felt as if I had never been on vacation."/ "He was no sooner graduated than he was on his way to California."/ "She no sooner completed one project than she invested the profits in the next."

    The American HeritageŽ Book of English Usage.


    216. no sooner than / no sooner when

    Because sooner in no sooner is a comparative adverb like better in no better, the expression should be followed by than, not when: No sooner had she come than the maid knocked/ I had no sooner left than she called.

  4. whitemoon's Avatar
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    #7

    Re: No sooner

    Thanks a million.I'm very satisfied with your explaination.

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    #8

    Re: No sooner

    Hi Whitemoon,

    I acclaim the magnificent revision of the highly respected BobK, namely "No sooner said then done." I find fit, for better understanding, to supplement the explanation of the meaning of this idiom, namely "accomplish immediately" as in "He said me should leave and, no sooner said that done". This expression employs no sooner - than in the sense of "at once".

    For better understanding the present thread "the combination no sooner .. than" I will use the original explanation of an indisputable authority, namely Prof. Michael Swam. For this purpose I will use also the classical well-known example comprising a railway station and a train.

    If I say "No sooner had I arrived at the station than the train came in." We need to be clear what happened first. Does it mean, the train came in and then me, or I came in and right after me the train? Well, my experience is actually that I arrive at the station, and than the train doesn't come in for hours.

    But if I say "No sooner had I arrived at the station than the train came in", it means, I came in and right after me the train. I got there first...just!

    I'll give you another couple of examples:

    "No sooner had I put the phone down than it rung again."

    "No sooner had I finished the meal than I started feeling hungry again."

    "No sooner had I left the house than it started raining."

    "No sooner had I reached there than it started raining."

    There's two similar structures, that have the same meaning, with "hardly" and "scarcely".

    You could say "Hardly had I arrived at the station when the train came in".
    "Scarcely had I arrived at the station when the train came in".

    In my opinion the sentence in Whitemoon's post have to be

    "No sooner had I reached there than you came in".

    Regards.

    V.

  5. whitemoon's Avatar
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    #9

    Re: No sooner

    First of all, I'd like to thank you from the bottom of my heart.
    Your explanation is very good and I understand it very well, but I've got two questions from your explanation.
    First is:

    Your sentence: There's two similar structures, that have the same meaning, with "hardly" and "scarcely".

    Do you mean 's is has or is?
    If 's means has, is there a pattern There has? or do the subject and the verb fit together in agrement?
    If 's means is, does the subject agree with the verb?.

    Second is:
    Hardly had I arrived at the station when the train came in.
    Scarcely had I arrived at the station when the train came in.
    No sooner had I arrived at the station than the train came in.

    Are these three sentences the same?

    May you be happy, healthy and wealthy,
    Whitemoon

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