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    • Join Date: Jul 2007
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    #1

    What is the difference between selfsame and same?

    What is the difference between selfsame and same?

  1. rewboss's Avatar

    • Join Date: Feb 2006
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    #2

    Re: What is the difference between selfsame and same?

    "Selfsame" emphasises the fact that one thing has the exact same identity as another. It can also only be used as an adjective, while "same" can also be used as a pronoun. Otherwise, it means virtually the same thing.

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    #3

    Re: What is the difference between selfsame and same?

    Hi belly_ttt,

    If I were you, I wouldn't be in such a hurry to table a such a laughable question for discussion to the present honorable forum. I would direct my attention to the first fallen in my hands dictionary in order to satisfy my intrusive studiousness.

    If you have done this you would surely have read the following very simple explanation.

    selfsame (adj) = being one and not another or others, not different in nature or identify

    selfsame = same = identical

    same (adj) = being the very one, identical, similar in kind, quality, quantity or degree, conforming in every details, being the one previously mentioned or indicated.

    The expression same and the same one are sometimes used in place of pronouns such as "it" or "one", as in

    "When you have filled out the form, please remit same to this office."

    As this example suggests, that usage is associated chiefly with business and legal language, and some critics have suggested that it should be reserved for such context. But though the usage often does sound stilted, it occurs with some frequency in informal writing, particularly in the phrase "lack of same" , as in

    "It is a question of money, or lack of same."

    I know, to save labor, you prefer to ask to read but you have to know, work give pleasure not be parasite on.

    Regards.

    V.

  2. rewboss's Avatar

    • Join Date: Feb 2006
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    #4

    Re: What is the difference between selfsame and same?

    You know, vil, sometimes dictionaries are not perfect. They can't be: even the biggest dictionaries can't explain all the subtle nuances of speech.

    For example, you use the phrase "to table a question", but that's not really appropriate here: it's really best reserved for very formal meetings. "Intrusive" is generally used in a negative sense, as it describes an unwelcome encroachment or trespass (it's related to "intruder", which is a person who gains unlawful or unwelcome entry, such as a burglar).

    Questions such as this are welcome on this forum, and belly is perfectly justified in asking it.


    • Join Date: Jul 2007
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    #5

    Re: What is the difference between selfsame and same?

    Quote Originally Posted by vil View Post
    Hi belly_ttt,

    If I were you, I wouldn't be in such a hurry to table a such a laughable question for discussion to the present honorable forum. I would direct my attention to the first fallen in my hands dictionary in order to satisfy my intrusive studiousness.

    If you have done this you would surely have read the following very simple explanation.

    selfsame (adj) = being one and not another or others, not different in nature or identify

    selfsame = same= identical

    same (adj) = being the very one, identical, similar in kind, quality, quantity or degree, conforming in every details, being the one previously mentioned or indicated.

    The expression same and the same one are sometimes used in place of pronouns such as "it" or "one", as in

    "When you have filled out the form, please remit same to this office."

    As this example suggests, that usage is associated chiefly with business and legal language, and some critics have suggested that it should be reserved for such context. But though the usage often does sound stilted, it occurs with some frequency in informal writing, particularly in the phrase "lack of same" , as in

    "It is a question of money, or lack of same."

    I know, to save labor, you prefer to ask to read but you have to know, work give pleasure not be parasite on.

    Regards.

    V.
    I am sorry but allow me to say this: Aren't you a little bit over-excess? I wouldn't say to my students phrases such as using laughable question if I were a teacher because almost every question of them is welcome. How do you know I didn't check the dictionary first? I have an Oxford at home and see what it said:

    identical (to / with sb/sth) similar in every detail:
    a row of identical houses Her dress is almost identical to mine. The number on the card should be identical with the one on the chequebook. The two pictures are similar, although not identical.2the identical [only before noun] the same:
    This is the identical room we stayed in last year.
    same / seIm; NAmE / adjective, pronoun, adverbΠadjective 1exactly the one or ones referred to or mentioned; not different:
    We have lived in the same house for twenty years. Our children go to the same school as theirs. She’s still the same fun-loving person that I knew at college. This one works in exactly the same way as the other. They both said much the same thing. He used the very same (= exactly the same) words. I resigned last Friday and left that same day.2exactly like the one or ones referred to or mentioned:
    I bought the same car as yours (= another car of that type). She was wearing the same dress that I had on. The same thing happened to me last week.
    I just want to know, if the same and ideantical are the same terms because dictionary explained it in a way that confused a lot of people, not only me. I think, if they are synonym, they should be given clues there, but there were none and I cannot find any big differences between the two definitions so I asked. If my question was troubling you, you can simply add me to you ignore list. I have nothing to protest against it.
    Notwithstanding, if you didn't intend to say that, I'm most sorry since I have guessed wrong about you.
    Last edited by belly_ttt; 05-Jan-2008 at 15:43.

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    #6

    Re: What is the difference between selfsame and same?

    Hi rewboss,

    You know, reboss, sometimes the common people are also not perfect. They can't be:even the most conscientious and ambitious students allow mistakes to slip in.Only the almighty and all knowing God is good and perfect. And most very likely sometimes this quality is also a prerogative of few moderators.

    I try and find some way to understand your ardent inclination to protect the hard acceptable mediocrity , which have recently flooded many forums in Internet. The end justifies the means. Quantity is of the first importance, not the quality.

    I used to be of service sharing my humble experience. My invention was to give a piece of good advice. My invention was to give a more widened explanation and to make the matter clear with visual aids of a few examples. Something that definitely was wanted in your first post at that thread.

    Excuse me for using the phrase "to table a question for discussion" for "put/submit a question for discussion", which in my opinion sounds very common and prosaically. Probably I am too formal of the present forum,
    as well as I repose too great trust in it.

    Presumably in order to be more intelligible I have to use the vocabulary of the fairly-tales of the Brother Grimm?

    Concerning the adjective "intrusive" I might say, that I have used the following well-known meaning "troubling to the mind or emotions and given to intruding in other people's affairs" which is considerably more correctly than this one, which was interpreted of you.

    In case in necessary you can use also on this place the following identical adjectives as: interfering, meddlesome, obtrusive, which in my humble opinion have sometimes rather positive sense.

    But I shouldn't forget the Bible's parable for the "itching ears", a phenomena
    that is actual also nowadays.

    Regards.

    V.

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