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  1. #1
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    Dec 2007
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    Smile "by using" or "using"

    Could you please explain the difference among the following?

    (1) I'll create an original sweater by using a knitting machine.
    (2) I'll create an original sweater using a knitting machine.
    (3) I'll create an original sweater, using a knitting machine.
    (4) Using a knitting machine, I'll create an original sweater.

    Thank you very much.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Re: "by using" or "using"

    I think at the first u must know the meaning of using and by using clearful

    to know how to difference between them

    You'er welcome

  3. #3
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    Smile Re: "by using" or "using"

    There's no difference in the meanings of any of these:

    (1) I'll create an original sweater by using a knitting machine.
    No need for 'by'

    (2) I'll create an original sweater using a knitting machine.
    This is good.

    (3) I'll create an original sweater, using a knitting machine.
    No need for a comma.

    (4) Using a knitting machine, I'll create an original sweater.
    This is great.

  4. #4
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    Smile Re: "by using" or "using"

    Thank you for response.

    Dear Shakespeare's brother:

    Thanks for your comment, but I'm a bit confused.

    >>(1) I'll create an original sweater by using a knitting machine.
    >>No need for 'by'

    Why is " No need for 'by'"?
    Generally, "by" is used to express means.
    The following are examples in my dictionary.

    (a) She earns extra money by babysitting.
    (b) She passed the examination by working hard.

    Can I say as follows?
    (a') She earns extra money babysitting.
    (a'') Babysitting, she earns extra money.

    (b') She passed the examination working hard.
    (b'') Working hard, she passed the examination.

    Thank you very much.

  5. #5
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    Feb 2008
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    Question Re: "by using" or "using"

    Groopy, you have made an excellent point. To be fair I think there is often a need for 'by' in situations like this but in spoken in English it's very seldom uttered.

    If I may say that changing the word order of the sentences you provided would be good form, would make them sound better and would do away with us sweating about where to put 'by'.

    BY BABYSITTING, SHE EARNS EXTRA MONEY.

    BY WORKING HARD, SHE PASSED THE EXAMINATION.

    What dy think?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Re: "by using" or "using"

    Dear Shakespeare's brother:

    Thank you very much for your explanaton.

    I don't understand completely when I should put "by" in normal written English, but I understand that I don't care about whether or not I should put "by" in normal spoken English.

    Maybe I must read more English materials to know the nuance of this usage.

  7. #7
    albertino is offline Senior Member
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    Re: "by using" or "using"

    (Not a teacher)

    Groopy7777, the combined use of "by" + "using" in your instances is wrong in prinicple. According to "Practical English Usage" of Michael Swan, "by" is used with "means/action" while "with" with tools etc. Now, to put you in a clearer perspective, let's look at the following examples:

    I killed the cockroach by hitting it. (means/Action) (Right)
    I killed the cockroach by a roll-up newspaper. (Wrong)
    I killed the cockroach with a roll-up newspaper(tools/things:nouns). (Right)

    He got what he wanted by talking very cleverly. (means/action)
    He got what he wanted with flowers and chocolates. (tools/things)

    So, the answers to your questions are:
    (1) I'll create an original sweater with a knitting machine.
    (2) I'll create an original sweater with a knitting machine.
    (3) I'll create an original sweater, with a knitting machine.
    (4) With a knitting machine, I'll create an original sweater.


    Hope that really helps.
    Last edited by albertino; 21-Feb-2008 at 03:16.

  8. #8
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    Smile Re: "by using" or "using"

    Thank you for responding to me.
    Your explanation is really helpful, but I'm still confused.

    (A)The Microsoft's website has the following sentence:
    "You cannot open remote content by using the InfoTech protocol after you install security update 896358, security update 840315, or Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 1."
    support.microsoft.com/kb/896054

    In your understanding, this sentence should be "You cannot open remote content with the InfoTech protocol..."

    For me, both sentences seem to be correct, and this seems to be true of my instances.

    -I'll create an original sweater with a knitting machine.
    -I'll create an original sweater by using a knitting machine.

    (B)I also searched "by using" on Google, and the number of the search results was 179,000,000. This means that there are a lot of sentences using "by using".

    I'm sorry if my understanding is wrong.

  9. #9
    albertino is offline Senior Member
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    Re: "by using" or "using"

    Quote Originally Posted by groopy7777 View Post
    Thank you for responding to me.
    Your explanation is really helpful, but I'm still confused.

    (A)The Microsoft's website has the following sentence:
    "You cannot open remote content by using the InfoTech protocol after you install security update 896358, security update 840315, or Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 1."
    support.microsoft.com/kb/896054

    In your understanding, this sentence should be "You cannot open remote content with the InfoTech protocol..."

    For me, both sentences seem to be correct, and this seems to be true of my instances.

    -I'll create an original sweater with a knitting machine.
    -I'll create an original sweater by using a knitting machine.

    (B)I also searched "by using" on Google, and the number of the search results was 179,000,000. This means that there are a lot of sentences using "by using".

    I'm sorry if my understanding is wrong.
    Mind you, "All that glitters is not gold".

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