Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11
  1. Unregistered
    Guest
    #1

    Appreciate

    Dear Sir/Madam,

    My name is Somnieng. I am from Cambodia, a Cambodian. I appreciate in advance for any help from you. I have been learning English a few years (not intensively). Today, i have something in my mind that i need to explore reasonably to ease my doubt. What is the distinguishments between ''He helps me understand.....and He helps me to understand'' ''He wants me understand and he wants me to understand''. How can i understand the basic grammar on this area, if i see many same or similar cases.....


    Again, appreciate deeply!

    Somnieng
    Cambodia


    • Join Date: Feb 2008
    • Posts: 484
    #2

    Re: Appreciate

    'He helps me understand.....and He helps me to understand''
    Both are correct.

    ''He wants me understand and he wants me to understand''
    You can't say "He wants me understand." It's wrong.

    If you can't find the rules in the English Grammar Glossary on this site, you can find them in the grammar book, "English Grammar in Use", by Raymond Murphy. In the index at the back, you look for the word you want and you will find the page (all the words in this area are on the same page).

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Chinese
      • Home Country:
      • China
      • Current Location:
      • China

    • Join Date: Jul 2007
    • Posts: 812
    #3

    Re: Appreciate

    naomimalan:'He wants me understand and he wants me to understand''
    You can't say "He wants me understand." It's wrong.

    What's wrong with " he wants me understand" ? Please.


    • Join Date: Nov 2007
    • Posts: 5,409
    #4

    Re: Appreciate

    What's wrong with " he wants me understand" ? Please.

    It's incorrect grammar, just as "He helps me understand" is incorrect.

    You will hear and see examples of this in everyday speech and in what you read on the Internet eg I had went to the shop and I seen him there.

    The correct phrasing is:
    He helps me to understand...
    He wants me to understand...

  2. banderas's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Polish
      • Home Country:
      • Poland
      • Current Location:
      • UK

    • Join Date: Mar 2008
    • Posts: 1,512
    #5

    Re: Appreciate

    I would like ask David and Naomimalan about help me (to)-structure.

    He helps me to understand... or he helps me understand?

    it is said that both versions are ok and it is a matter of personal choice which one you use. It is also believed that structure without "to" is more Amercian than BrE. I am not sure,... anyway.
    Do not you think that there must be a slight difference in usage?

    My idea is that we use "to" in the following example: "he helps me to loose weight" because it is not an immidiate task. Like "to do list" is a list of things to get done but usually not right now.
    If an immidiate task is involved then we say: he helps me tidy the room.

    What do you think?




    • Join Date: Nov 2007
    • Posts: 5,409
    #6

    Re: Appreciate

    The infinitive may be preceded by 'to' , or it may stand alone.

    The to-infinitive form is used:
    a. after certain verbs. e.g. want, wish, agree, fail, mean, decide, learn
    b. after the auxiliaries 'to be to', 'to have to', and 'ought to'
    c. in the pattern 'it is + adjective + to-infinitive'

    Examples with 'to' :

    The elephant decided to marry the mouse
    The mouse agreed to marry the elephant
    You will have to ask her
    You are to leave immediately
    He ought to relax
    She has to go to Berlin next week
    It's easy to speak English
    It is hard to change jobs after twenty years
    It's stupid to believe everything you hear

    without 'to'

    I would rather visit Rome.
    She would rather live in Italy.
    Would you rather eat steak or fish?
    He would rather work in a bank.
    I'd rather be a forest than a tree.
    Last edited by David L.; 30-Mar-2008 at 11:37.

  3. banderas's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Polish
      • Home Country:
      • Poland
      • Current Location:
      • UK

    • Join Date: Mar 2008
    • Posts: 1,512
    #7

    Re: Appreciate

    Quote Originally Posted by David L. View Post
    The infinitive may be preceded by 'to' , or it may stand alone.

    The to-infinitive form is used:
    a. after certain verbs. e.g. want, wish, agree, fail, mean, decide, learn, understand
    b. after the auxiliaries 'to be to', 'to have to', and 'ought to'
    c. in the pattern 'it is + adjective + to-infinitive'

    Examples with 'to' :

    The elephant decided to marry the mouse
    The mouse agreed to marry the elephant
    You will have to ask her
    You are to leave immediately
    He ought to relax
    She has to go to Berlin next week
    It's easy to speak English
    It is hard to change jobs after twenty years
    It's stupid to believe everything you hear

    without 'to'

    I would rather visit Rome.
    She would rather live in Italy.
    Would you rather eat steak or fish?
    He would rather work in a bank.
    I'd rather be a forest than a tree.
    Thanks for reminding me these rules but my concern is that Raymond Murphy said: "After help you can use infinitive with ot without to", source: "English Grammar in Use", Cambridge University Press, page 108. He did not specify when you do and when you don't use "to".

  4. banderas's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Polish
      • Home Country:
      • Poland
      • Current Location:
      • UK

    • Join Date: Mar 2008
    • Posts: 1,512
    #8

    Re: Appreciate

    David, I swear you replied me and now it looks like your reply dissapeared....
    After the object after certain verbs, such as hear, see, make, let, there is no to:
    • I saw him pour the medicine down the loo and I heard him laugh to himself.

    • I cannot make you take this medication, I can only ask you to take it.

    • I can't let you go to bed hungry. You must let me prepare you some supper.
    "help" is not included in this group of verbs. I am still confused...source:Learning English | BBC World Service

  5. banderas's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Polish
      • Home Country:
      • Poland
      • Current Location:
      • UK

    • Join Date: Mar 2008
    • Posts: 1,512
    #9

    Re: Appreciate

    Raymond Murphy said: "After help you can use infinitive with ot without to", source: "English Grammar in Use", Cambridge University Press, page 108. He did not specify when you do and when you don't use "to".

    any idea,please?


    • Join Date: Feb 2008
    • Posts: 484
    #10

    Re: Appreciate

    Quote Originally Posted by banderas View Post
    I would like ask David and Naomimalan about help me (to)-structure.

    He helps me to understand... or he helps me understand?

    it is said that both versions are ok and it is a matter of personal choice which one you use. It is also believed that structure without "to" is more Amercian than BrE. I am not sure,... anyway.
    Do not you think that there must be a slight difference in usage?

    My idea is that we use "to" in the following example: "he helps me to loose weight" because it is not an immidiate task. Like "to do list" is a list of things to get done but usually not right now.
    If an immidiate task is involved then we say: he helps me tidy the room.
    What do you think?
    I have eight grammar books (including the Raymond Murphy grammar you mention). They all say that both forms are acceptable. None of them make(s) any distinction between the two forms as regards meaning. One of them* confirms what you say, Banderas, that the bare infinitive form is what he calls an “Americanism”.

    Apart from Raymond Murphy, who is very reliable, I shall just refer to the two authorities on English Grammar:

    Thomson and Martinet, “A Practical English Grammar”, Fourth Edition, para 246H: “Help may be followed by a full or bare infinitive: He helped us (to) push it.

    Raymond Quirk et al, “A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language” (1992), : Type (iii) [help, know] is a residual class of two verbs which are optionally followed by a to-infinitive.

    (iii) Sarah helped us (to) edit the script.
    I have known John (to) give better speeches than that.

    (Your idea about an immediate task is interesting but I don't think it applies here.),




    *Grammaire Pratique de l’Anglais : S. Berland –Delépine (Ophrys 1990), para 299.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •