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  1. engee30's Avatar
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    #11

    Smile Re: past perfect with BEFORE and AFTER

    Quote Originally Posted by banderas View Post
    Show me a speaker excluding English teachers who use Past Perfect tense in his speech. Or perhaps ask an ordinary English native speaker what is this tense about. Expect such a reaction=
    You may well be right about that. That said, I used this tense today, at work. So I'm certain they use it too, and surely they'll know something about it.

  2. banderas's Avatar
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    #12

    Re: past perfect with BEFORE and AFTER

    Quote Originally Posted by engee30 View Post
    That said, I used this tense today, at work. So I'm certain they use it too, and surely they'll know something about it.
    something about itwell said! They surely hear it from you but I do not think they use it. I really doubt if even our Teachers in this forum make a sentence in Past Perfect Tense...
    Can anybody prove me wrong, please?

  3. engee30's Avatar
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    #13

    Post Re: past perfect with BEFORE and AFTER

    Quote Originally Posted by banderas View Post
    ...
    They surely hear it from you but I do not think they use it...

    Can anybody prove me wrong, please?
    I can prove you wrong right now.

    One of my workmates wanted to explained me why he had done something the way he did. What he had to do to explain to me why was to use the past perfect tense in a conditional sentence. So they know how it works and what it is for.
    But speaking of the conjunctions after and before - you still may be right about that they never, or hardly ever, use the past perfect tense with them.

  4. banderas's Avatar
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    #14

    Re: past perfect with BEFORE and AFTER

    Quote Originally Posted by engee30 View Post
    I can prove you wrong right now.

    One of my workmates wanted to explained me why he had done something the way he did. What he had to do to explain to me why was to use the past perfect tense in a conditional sentence.
    Ok, he was explaining some English grammar to you. What I meant was an ordinary conversation between English speakers. An ordinary one without any English grammar nuisances involed.
    What am I getting at?
    Please native speakers, why don't you use Present Perfect Tense. It does not bother me that you do not. I do not either. What bothers me is why? My idea is that speakers aim at keeping English simple but I am not sure... Are you???
    Last edited by RonBee; 18-Apr-2008 at 01:12. Reason: fix quote

  5. RonBee's Avatar
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    #15

    Re: past perfect with BEFORE and AFTER

    I am afraid you haven't been paying attention.

    Quote Originally Posted by davidgegia View Post
    AFTER I HAD FINISHED MY SCHOOL I WENT TO CANADA.

    That is not an English sentence. ("After I finished my school"makes no sense.) Try:
    After I finished my schooling, I went to Canada.
    Quote Originally Posted by davidgegia View Post
    AFTER I FINISHED MY SCHOOL I WENT TO CANADA

    Say:
    After I finished my schooling, I went to Canada.
    Concocting your own theories of English grammar is not helping you learn English. Focus on how English is really spoken. (Please avoid using all caps.)

    ~R


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    #16

    Re: past perfect with BEFORE and AFTER

    After she had finished with the fruit salad, Mum had started to set the table.

    Before Mum had started to set the table, she had finished with the fruit salad.

    After she had left university, Monica had found a well-paid job in advertising.

    Before Monica had found the well-paid job, she had left university.

    And yet, it's certainly possible, and not at all ungrammatical, to have a 'had' in each clause.


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    #17

    Re: past perfect with BEFORE and AFTER

    Quote Originally Posted by engee30 View Post
    One of my workmates wanted to explained me why he had done something the way he did. What he had to do to explain to me why was to use the past perfect tense in a conditional sentence. So they know how it works and what it is for.
    Can you recount the example sentence, Engee?

  6. engee30's Avatar
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    #18

    Question Re: past perfect with BEFORE and AFTER

    Quote Originally Posted by riverkid View Post
    Can you recount the example sentence, Engee?
    I will, but first could you tell me what those hads you added to my sentences change? Or they don't?


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    #19

    Re: past perfect with BEFORE and AFTER

    Hi guys again,

    1. my initial question was if the 2 below were different in meaning:

    AFTER I HAD FINISHED MY SCHOOLING I WENT TO CANADA.
    I HAD FINISHED MY SCHOOLING BEFORE I WENT TO CANADA.

    THEY CARRY SAME MEANING AS FAR AS I KNOW BUT I WANTED TO KNOW IF ANYBODY COULD COME UP WITH SOMETHING DIFFERENT. (I see we all agree that they have the same meaning)

    2. My other question was if the 2 below could be explained more specifically(in real life situations) rather than concluding the same cliches, as most books do, saying that one past action happened before the other past action occurred.

    a) AFTER I HAD FINISHED MY SCHOOLING I WENT TO CANADA. (I THINK PAST PERFECT EMPASISES THAT ONE PAST ACTION CONCLUDED IN ORDER TO OPEN THE WAY FOR THE OTHER ACTION TO HAPPEN, IN OTHER WORDS ,THE PREFERENCE OR OBLIGATION WAS TO FINISH THE SCHOOL FIRST BEFORE GOING TO CANADA. HE WOULD NOT HAVE PROBABLY WANTED TO GO TO CANADA WITHOUT ACCOMPLISHING HIS SCHOOL MATTERS).

    b) AFTER I FINISHED MY SCHOOL I WENT TO CANADA.(MAY IMPLY MORE OF A SEQUENCE OF FACTS(NOTE THAT PAST SIMPLE USE WITH BEFORE/AFTER IS AMERICAN ENGLISH PREFERENCE TOO)

    This is all I want to explore here, so there is no need of clinging on to my mistake (school or schooling as per RonBee), because it shows no more than avoidance of the question.(I am not a native speaker but very proud of trying to get a better insight of the language:))
    Banderas, you could also draw some parallels between the English and Polish languages where you can get deeper understanding.
    What frustrates me and students most is that they hear the same thing that makes no proper sense to them e.g if we say that one past action happened before the other past action would give them very little because it is not situational. Many teachers do not notice the obstacles students face. The language is not about formulas(Math) but real life situations and contexts. there must be an answer if we raise a question what makes you say that? whatever we say has its reason to be said (I do not think we use past perfect simply to show that something happened before something - it looks more of a "get out clause":))

    Cheers
    Last edited by davidgegia; 19-Apr-2008 at 12:26.

  7. banderas's Avatar
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    #20

    Re: past perfect with BEFORE and AFTER

    Quote Originally Posted by davidgegia View Post

    a) AFTER I HAD FINISHED MY SCHOOLING I WENT TO CANADA. (I THINK PAST PERFECT EMPASISES THAT ONE PAST ACTION CONCLUDED IN ORDER TO OPEN THE WAY FOR THE OTHER ACTION TO HAPPEN, IN OTHER WORDS ,THE PREFERENCE OR OBLIGATION WAS TO FINISH THE SCHOOL FIRST BEFORE GOING TO CANADA. HE WOULD NOT HAVE PROBABLY WANTED TO GO TO CANADA WITHOUT ACCOMPLISHING HIS SCHOOL MATTERS). I agree with you on this.

    b) AFTER I FINISHED MY SCHOOL I WENT TO CANADA.(MAY IMPLY MORE OF A SEQUENCE OF FACTS(NOTE THAT PAST SIMPLE USE WITH BEFORE/AFTER IS AMERICAN ENGLISH PREFERENCE TOO). You are right.


    The language is not about the formulas(Math) but real life situations and contexts.
    A good point. I believe that Past Perfect Tense is not completely about real life situations as I see it mostly in literature. Therefore it is so difficult to grasp. Still do not know why it is so uncommon in spoken language.


    Cheers
    d

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