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  1. Offroad's Avatar
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    #1

    have usage

    Please, teachers, could you help me out with this?

    I am getting confused about the "have" usage:

    I have heard some people tell me this works.
    Does it mean I heard it many times or I just heard it?

    I have been hearing from some people who tell me this works.
    This mean I heard it many times until now.

    That man has been shot by Mr X.
    Does it mean that the man was just shot (minutes ago) or he was shot for years?

    Thanks in advance, whether you find any error in those sentences, please, proofread.

    Many thanks

  2. proof.beh's Avatar

    • Join Date: Mar 2008
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    #2

    Re: have usage

    Quote Originally Posted by marciobarbalho View Post
    Please, teachers, could you help me out with this?

    I am getting confused about the "have" usage:

    I have heard some people tell me this works.
    Does it mean I heard it many times or I just heard it?

    This is the state of a present perfect verb, here heard, which is come with a have before! and means you heard and now you don't! because they are stopped talking about!

    I have been hearing from some people who tell me this works.
    This mean I heard it many times until now.

    It means you are hearing now but from a determined time in the past up to now that it's continuing!

    That man has been shot by Mr X.
    Does it mean that the man was just shot (minutes ago) or he was shot for years?

    That is a passive form and means as the following:

    Sam has told me that you are leaving.
    I have been told (by Sam) that you are leaving.


    Thanks in advance, whether you find any error in those sentences, please, proofread.

    Many thanks
    P


    • Join Date: Aug 2006
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    #3

    Re: have usage

    Quote Originally Posted by marciobarbalho View Post
    Please, teachers, could you help me out with this?

    I am getting confused about the "have" usage:

    I have heard some people tell me this works.
    Does it mean I heard it many times or I just heard it?

    I have been hearing from some people who tell me this works.
    This mean I heard it many times until now.

    That man has been shot by Mr X.
    Does it mean that the man was just shot (minutes ago) or he was shot for years?

    Thanks in advance, whether you find any error in those sentences, please, proofread.

    Many thanks
    It's understandable that you get confused, Marcio because you don't know which use of the present perfect [PP] or the present perfect continuous [PPC] is being used. Let's look at them one at a time.

    But before I start, let me say that your example doesn't sound really natural. I have heard" refers to a general hearing, around and about, but then you seem to specify with "some people". Do you mean to say,


    I have heard that this works.

    OR

    I have had [heard] some people tell me this works.

    OR, very similar,

    I have heard from some people that this works.


    So before we go on, maybe you should clarify what you mean.
    Last edited by riverkid; 20-Apr-2008 at 01:27.

  3. Offroad's Avatar
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    #4

    Re: have usage

    Quote Originally Posted by riverkid View Post
    Do you mean to say,
    I have heard that this works.
    OR
    I have had [heard] some people tell me this works.
    OR, very similar,
    I have heard from some people that this works.

    So before we go on, maybe you should clarify what you mean.
    All I want is to know the right usage of those sentences without thinking about grammar.

    I guess those sentences are very close in effect, right? They are different ways of saying the same thing.

    Well, have a look at this:

    1) Something just happened
    2) Something has been happened
    3) Something has been happening
    4) Something has happened
    5) Something happened

    could you explain the differences between them? Are some of them equal in meaning?

    Thank you very much
    Last edited by Offroad; 20-Apr-2008 at 01:19.

  4. banderas's Avatar
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    #5

    Re: have usage

    Quote Originally Posted by marciobarbalho View Post
    All I want is to know the right usage of those sentences without thinking about grammar.

    I guess those sentences are very close in effect, right? They are different ways of saying the same thing.

    Well, have a look at this:
    Without any grammar involved:
    1) Something just happened. Something happened a while ago.
    2) Something has been happened. Wrong. I can not explain why without talking about grammar.
    2.1) X has been shot. Someone shot person A. Person A has been shot (by someone) and now is dying or has died recently.
    3) Something has been happening. Something has been happening for a period of time until now.
    4) Something has happened. Something happened (yesterday, last week etc.

    could you explain the differences between them? Are some of them equal in meaning?

    Thank you very much
    Does it make sense?
    Last edited by banderas; 20-Apr-2008 at 01:20. Reason: typo

  5. Offroad's Avatar
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    #6

    Re: have usage

    Quote Originally Posted by banderas View Post
    Something has been happened. Wrong. I can not explain why without talking about grammar.
    Mr. X has been shot. Someone shot person A. Person A has been shot (by someone) and now is dying or has died recently.
    Does it make sense?
    thank you Banderas. So, I can say this kind of sentence depends on the verb.

    However, two more questions, I think I did it before but now I did forget how to use it again:

    Do they have the same meaning?

    Mr. X has been shot = Mr. X was just shot ?
    Something has happened = something happened ?

    Thank you very much

  6. banderas's Avatar
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    #7

    Re: have usage

    Quote Originally Posted by marciobarbalho View Post
    thank you Banderas. So, I can say this kind of sentence depends on the verb. It rather depends on what you want to emphasize, Marcio.

    However, two more questions, I think I did it before but now I did forget how to use it again:

    Do they have the same meaning?

    Mr. X has been shot = Mr. X was just shot ?Yes, they do.
    Something has happened = something happened ?No they do not, unless you add "just" between something and happened.

    Thank you very much
    d


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    #8

    Re: have usage

    Originally Posted by marciobarbalho
    thank you Banderas. So, I can say this kind of sentence depends on the verb.

    Quote Originally Posted by banderas View Post
    It rather depends on what you want to emphasize, Marcio.
    Marcio: However, two more questions, I think I did it before but now I did forget how to use it again:

    Do they have the same meaning?

    Mr. X has been shot = Mr. X was just shot ?

    Banderas: Yes, they do.

    I'm sorry, but I must disagree, Banderas. This is not NECESSARILY true even for BrE. They COULD mean that but it depends on the context, who is "speaking", what connection they have to the person shot.

    "Mr. X has been shot" could be the lead in for a two or three day old news story. [Then it is the PP of current relevance/importance]. The PP does not have to indicate that someone was just shot, "just" meaning moments ago, an hour ago, a very short time ago.


    Marcio: Something has happened = something happened ?

    Banderas: No, they do not, unless you add "just" between something and happened.

    For NaE [and I believe that for BrE this is starting to change] they are identical in meaning, but different in use.

    The difference, and this is the part that can be very confusing is that you can have person 1 say, "Something has happened ", person 2, "something happened", persons 3 &4 say, Something has happened", person 5, "something happened", and so on, and they are all talking about the same event.

    It seems confusing because it is so much a matter of speaker choice. But if you understand that using the PP makes the action seem more important, then it is not confusing at all. If one person wants to play it up, they use the PP and if another wants to play it down, they use the simple past.

    Now keep in mind that this is for one use of the PP, ie, the PP of current relevance/importance/HOT NEWS.

    There are other reasons to explain the why and how the other uses of the PP work. The one thing that all the uses of the present perfect have in common is a feeling of "up to now".

    The PP of current relevance/importance/HOT NEWS is the hardest one to grasp because though the action doesn't have to have been really recent, the effect we give by using the PP, makes this "older" action have a connection of "up to now".

  7. banderas's Avatar
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    #9

    Re: have usage

    [quote=riverkid;284350]
    Mr. X has been shot = Mr. X was just shot ?

    Banderas: Yes, they do.
    They COULD mean that but it depends on the context, who is "speaking", what connection they have to the person shot.
    So basically you agree with me but you feel there is something to expand on.

    "Mr. X has been shot" could be the lead in for a two or three day old news story. I am sorry, but I think that you present news only once (using PP), next day it is not HOT news any more. Next day the lead in would be: "Someone was shot yesterday, bla, bla, bla.

    Marcio: Something has happened = something happened ?

    Banderas: No, they do not, unless you add "just" between something and happened.

    For NaE [and I believe that for BrE this is starting to change] they are identical in meaning, but different in use.


    It seems confusing because it is so much a matter of speaker choice. But if you understand that using the PP makes the action seem more important, then it is not confusing at all. If one person wants to play it up, they use the PP and if another wants to play it down, they use the simple past.
    Your friend just called you=Your friend has called you. With all due respect, I can not see much to play up or down.


    The PP of current relevance/importance/HOT NEWS is the hardest one to grasp because though the action doesn't have to have been really recent, the effect we give by using the PP, makes this "older" action have a connection of "up to now".Any examples, please?[/quote]
    j


    • Join Date: Apr 2008
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    #10

    Re: have usage

    Please, teachers, could you help me out with this?

    I am getting confused about the "have" usage:

    I have heard some people tell me this works.
    Does it mean I heard it many times or I just heard it?

    It means you heard it in the past. You can say "I heard some people..." but this sounds more like the "some people" were a group that was together and you heard them speak to you toghether as a group. But if you say "have heard" it makes it sound more like it includes a longer time period and that it was more than one time that you heard it said.

    I have been hearing from some people who tell me this works.
    This mean I heard it many times until now.
    Yes this is right. Although in the United States it would sound better to say, "I have been hearing from some people that this works."

    That man has been shot by Mr X.
    Does it mean that the man was just shot (minutes ago) or he was shot for years?
    It means he was just shot. If it was years ago you would say, "That man was shot by Mr X."

    Thanks in advance, whether you find any error in those sentences, please, proofread.

    Many thanks

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