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    #1

    Arrow [to be p.p] or [p.p]

    Hello,

    I have following questions about past participle :

    1. I know I would like to be there, just to say to my grandchildren,
    "I saw the homerun record [be broken/broken]."

    2. It is incredible, how many things never get their chance [to be done/
    done] simply because we're afraid to be the first ones to even try.

    3. I had my hair [be cut/cut] yesterday.

    4. I got him [to be discouraged/discouraged].

    While I guess both to be answers for each 1~4 (RIGHT is abbreviation),
    please explain why, if I am wrong.

    Thanking in advance,


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    #2

    Re: [to be p.p] or [p.p]

    1. I know I would like to be there, just to say to my grandchildren,
    "I saw the homerun record [be broken/broken]."

    2. It is incredible, how many things never get their chance [to be done/
    done] simply because we're afraid to be the first ones to even try.

    3. I had my hair [be cut/cut] yesterday.

    4. I got him [to be discouraged/discouraged].

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    #3

    Re: [to be p.p] or [p.p]

    The second is different IMO because the 'to be done' points forwards in time (it would follow on from the chance).

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    #4

    Arrow Re: [to be p.p] or [p.p]

    T.dol

    Thanks for your reply, but please clarify followings ;

    1. What is IMO ?

    2. You mean that for the 2nd only [done] is the answer but for the others
    [both] could be the answers ?

    Would await to hear again,

    Thanks
    Last edited by deepcosmos; 24-Apr-2008 at 19:19. Reason: message correction only


    • Join Date: Nov 2007
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    #5

    Re: [to be p.p] or [p.p]

    1. I know I would like to be there, just to say to my grandchildren,
    "I saw the home run record broken."

    One minute it stands, the next it's broken.
    compare
    I know I would like to be there, just to say to my grandchildren,
    "I saw the home run record be broken."

    Now, we are right there with you, as he picks up the bat, signals are exchange, the pitcher throws, an almighty 'whack' of the bat against the ball, crowd to their feet - yes - he's done it!!!!!! The crowd cheer and whoop, and generally go crazy. The game comes to a halt in the excitement...and so on.
    You are referring to the whole experience, which in the newspaper tomorrow will appear as, "Home run record broken'.

    2. It is incredible, how many things never get the chance to be done simply because we're afraid to be the first ones to even try.

    3. I had my hair cut yesterday. - matter of fact, snip snip
    compare
    How could you allow your hair to be cut in such an amateurish fashion!
    or
    I insisted my hair be cut in the way I wanted, not like mimicking some celebrity-aberration of a style.
    or
    This time, I had my hair be cut so that it doesn't require hairspray to keep it in place all the time.

    4. I got him [to be discouraged/discouraged].
    Avoid the use of 'got' as much as possible. It's much better to say:
    I discouraged him from..
    or
    Rather than bucking him up(=make someone more cheerful), I think I just discouraged him more.
    Last edited by David L.; 24-Apr-2008 at 20:52.

  1. BobK's Avatar
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    #6

    Re: [to be p.p] or [p.p]

    Quote Originally Posted by deepcosmos View Post
    Hello,

    I have following questions about past participle :

    1. I know I would like to be there, just to say to my grandchildren,
    "I saw the homerun record [be broken/broken]."

    2. It is incredible, how many things never get their chance [to be done/
    done] simply because we're afraid to be the first ones to even try.

    3. I had my hair [be cut/cut] yesterday.

    4. I got him [to be discouraged/discouraged].

    While I guess both to be answers for each 1~4 (RIGHT is abbreviation),
    please explain why, if I am wrong.

    Thanking in advance,
    A bit late; quickie:
    1 I'd only use 'I saw the homerun record broken'. To emphasize immediacy I'd say 'I saw the homerun record being broken'. I've heard the version recommended by David though.

    2 'It is incredible[no comma] how many things never get their chance [nothing at all! - or instead you could say 'never see the light of day'] simply because we're afraid to be the first ones to even try.' Some teachers would object to the position of 'even', but I shan't dignify that prescription by so much as naming it.

    Someone (Chesterton?) wrote 'It's not so much that things have been tried in the balance and found wanting [a reference to the account in the Bible of Belshazzar's Feast, and the 'writing on the wall'] as that they have been found difficult and not tried at all'. (Not word-perfect, but that's the gist.)

    3 'Had my hair cut'. I could probably think up an unlikely context that would justify the inclusion of 'be'; something similar occurs with habits, where it is possible to say 'Some prefer to have their hair-dressers be personal friends', but this isn't really the same. It's the expression of a preference for something being something (it's not about getting something done). In the case of 'had my hair cut' the "be" would sound most unusual to me.

    4 'I got him discouraged', though as someone else said, the use of 'get' here is strange; I only use it here because it is not wrong - which 'got him to be discouraged' is, to my ears. I'd expect 'to be' only to refer to a long process and an obvious result: "It's not fair to get me [to be] all excited like that, and then leave me in suspense.'

    Sorry it's so long. As Pascal said, 'I didn't have the time to make it shorter'.



    b

    PS, For the meaning of "IMO" see https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/a...tml#post287646.
    and https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/a...tml#post287649
    Last edited by BobK; 28-Apr-2008 at 15:50. Reason: Added PS

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