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    #1

    These or Those or Such

    Please correct me about the following statements: 1 and 2


    1.
    "I argue in this paper that indigenous credit institutions could potentially provide reliable credit to small-scale traders. Such/these/those institutions will be shown to reflect the cultural context where they emerged."

    My problem: I have had problem with the discourse use of "such", "these", and "those". In the statement above, which is correct among such, these, and those?


    Please I understand the use of "this", "these", "that", "those" in referring to physical objects that are near or far: this chair (near) or that chair (far).

    I also undertand the use of the concepts when somebody makes a statement and another person responds:

    John talking - I like red apples.
    Peter responding - I do not like those apples.

    My problem is about the discourse use of the concepts in writing and speaking.

    2.
    I talking to some people: "The law of gravity says that whatever goes up must come down. That/this law has however proven to be wrong."

    Should I use "that" or "this in 2?


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    #2

    Re: These or Those or Such

    Quote Originally Posted by kooiu View Post
    Please correct me about the following statements: 1 and 2

    My problem: I have had a problem with the discourse use of "such", "these", and "those". In the statement above, which is correct among such, these, and those?

    1.
    "I argue in this paper that indigenous credit institutions could potentially provide reliable credit to small-scale traders. These institutions will be shown to reflect the cultural context from which they have emerged."

    Please note that I understand the use of "this", "these", "that", "those" in referring to physical objects that are near or far: 'this chair' (near) or 'that chair' (far). (or, the chair being indicated, versus 'the other chair' that has been referred to in the discussion, which in fact may be located right next to the 'this chair')

    I also undertand the use of the concepts when somebody makes a statement and another person responds:

    John : I like red apples.
    Peter : I do not like those apples.
    (though if Peter was a native speaker, he would not phrase it that way, particularly with the repetition of 'apples'; but I get the point about "those")
    My problem is about the discourse use of the concepts in writing and speaking.

    2.
    I am talking to some people: "The law of gravity says that whatever goes up must come down. That/this law has however proven to be wrong."

    Should I use "that" or "this in 2?
    This is a tricky one. If you were bringing in into discussion, one might say: "today we are doing to discuss the Law of Gravity. This law asserts that..."

    However, 'that' has the sense of keeping objective distance from something under discussion, which is a stance to be taken in a scientific discourse..
    So I guess it is whether you are bringing it into discussion,'nearer', and so 'this'; or holding it at an objective distance.
    "Science has revered the four laws of Newton for centuries. Nor is their fame and familiarity confined to the hallowed halls of scholarship - even Shirley Bassey extols the Law of Gravity, that 'what goes up, must come down, spinning wheel gotta go around". But ladies and gentleman of the Academy, I will today prove this law is fallacious."

    "Newton's Law of Gravity deterred all thoughts of space exploration well into the 20th century. It was that Law that caused scientist and layman alike to ridicule the notion of sending any object into space, never mind man, as futile, since he must inevitably tumble ignominiously back to earth."
    Hopefully, other posters will have clearer ideas on this/that one!
    Last edited by David L.; 02-May-2008 at 06:43.

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    #3

    Re: These or Those or Such

    Quote Originally Posted by kooiu View Post
    Please correct me about the following statements: 1 and 2


    1.
    "I argue in this paper that indigenous credit institutions could potentially provide reliable credit to small-scale traders. Such/these/those institutions will be shown to reflect the cultural context where they emerged."

    My problem: I have had problem with the discourse use of "such", "these", and "those". In the statement above, which is correct among such, these, and those?


    Please I understand the use of "this", "these", "that", "those" in referring to physical objects that are near or far: this chair (near) or that chair (far).

    I also undertand the use of the concepts when somebody makes a statement and another person responds:

    John talking - I like red apples.
    Peter responding - I do not like those apples.

    My problem is about the discourse use of the concepts in writing and speaking.

    2.
    I talking to some people: "The law of gravity says that whatever goes up must come down. That/this law has however proven to be wrong."

    Should I use "that" or "this in 2?
    1. First, 'such' can't be used in the first sentence like that. You can't use word 'such' as a comparison. You can redouble a gradual noun like 'excitement', 'joy', 'fun', 'fool', 'mess', 'disorder', etc. In instance, 'It was such a fun!' and 'He was such a fool!' In the first case, you praise something. In the second case, you affirm that the person is really stupid.

    'These' is a plural form of 'this', while 'those' is a plural form to 'that'. Examples, these apples (the apples are near to you), those apples (the apples are close to the person you are speaking with) (Yes, you are right!) There is no reason for you to doubt.

    2. It's very easy to determine what word to choose. There is no joker here. You can use easilly what you consider to be close and right for the context you want. Remember, it depends to the context of the text you've heard.

    And last but not least, don't forget an auxililary verb 'to be' as the indicator of the Present Continious tense.

    Have a good day!


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    #4

    Re: These or Those or Such

    First, 'such' can't be used in the first sentence like that. You can't use word 'such' as a comparison. You can redouble a gradual noun like 'excitement', 'joy', 'fun', 'fool', 'mess', 'disorder', etc. In instance, 'It was such a fun!' and 'He was such a fool!' In the first case, you praise something. In the second case, you affirm that the person is really stupid.

    In the sentence that koolu gave, 'such' is not appropriate, but I failed to give my reason why.
    "these' refers back to, and limits itself to, the 'indigenous credit institutions'.
    For 'such' to be appropriate, the sentence would need to broaden the context:
    "Such institutions, as do indeed most indigenous organizations, reflect the cultural context..."
    In the sentences given, it is implied that the speaker is going to limit himself to discussing just the credit institutions previously referred to:
    "These institutions will be shown to reflect" - never mind the factors determining the emergence of, say, banks - I am specifically discussing the influence of culture on the emergence of credit institutions.
    Last edited by David L.; 02-May-2008 at 08:35.

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    #5

    Re: These or Those or Such

    David L.
    Thank you for your clear and understable response. Very useful. Thank you.


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    #6

    Re: These or Those or Such

    understable response.

    Is this a sneaky way of saying it was really 'horsesh*t"?

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