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    • Join Date: Nov 2007
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    #1

    I had had

    Hello,
    could someone please explain "I had had" Why do we use 2 had's and when do we use it?
    Thanks in advance


    • Join Date: Aug 2006
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    #2

    Re: I had had

    Quote Originally Posted by COOKIE72 View Post
    Hello,
    could someone please explain "I had had" Why do we use 2 had's and when do we use it?
    Thanks in advance
    This is the past perfect form, Cookie. We often use it to talk about an action that was performed before another action in te past.

    'had had' is no different than,

    I had been to Cairo before I got married.

    I had eaten the cake before she got home.

    I had + (past participle) ...

    I had studied in Rome after

    I had had supper before the game started.


    • Join Date: May 2008
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    #3

    Re: I had had

    It is because had serves as the auxilary verb (marking tense) and also the subsequent past participle verb form of "have".

    We form the past perfect tense with had+past participle.

    It is explained clearly here:

    https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/g...7-had-had.html

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    #4

    Re: I had had

    I had simple past tense
    I had had past perfect tense
    I had been having past perfect continuous tense

    It is about an irregular verb to have which is sometimnes used as a full verb ( main verb in a sentence) and mostly as an auxiliary for making the past perfect tense of all other verbs.

    I had said
    I had run
    I had patted
    I had swum
    I had heard
    etc

    Present and infinitive------- Simple past-------- Past participle

    go******************** went ********** gone
    be******************** was *********** been
    have ****************** had *********** had

    According to colloquium the mentioned past perfect tense we make as it follows:

    I had gone
    I had been
    I had had

    So in I had had the verb to have is used in both ways first as an auxiliary had and the main verb had.

    I had had a lot of problems with the grammar when I was in a secondary school and not much less when I studied biology at a university in former Yugoslavia later on.

    had had ~~~~~~past perfect tense, had is the auxiliary and had is the main verb
    studied ~~~~~~ simple past

    similar tense to the past perfect tense is the past perfect continuous tense.

    I had been running
    I had been swiming
    .
    .
    .
    I had been having

    As you've seen the main verb to have takes the form had in the past perfect tense and the form been having in the past perfect continuous.

    In addition the word have is chiefly used in English for many other things.

    a learner


    • Join Date: Apr 2008
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    #5

    Re: I had had

    Quote Originally Posted by riverkid View Post
    This is the past perfect form, Cookie. We often use it to talk about an action that was performed before another action in te past.
    This is a very commonly used definition which, in my opinion, doesn't reflect the true meaning of the past perfect.
    e.g. When I entered the room, a nice woman walked up to me.
    As you can see, the action expressed by the verb 'enter' was performed before the one expressed by the verb 'walk', however no past perfect tense is used in the sentence.
    The idea of the past perfect is indicating an action performed before a given past moment and viewed back from that past moment.
    e.g. Next morning I remembered that he had had a headache two days before.

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    #6

    Re: I had had

    learner

    If some things happened (were happening?) in the past but one after another I think I should use conjuctions of time such as after, before, until, as soon as, etc, together with the simple past tense of all of the main verbs used in the clauses which are connected.

    After I picked up all the plum I put it into a cask which had been made up of fairly dry oak planks that were tied up with four wide and strong iron hoops.

    After I picked up all the plum, I put it into a cask.
    This two clauses both refer to the one simple past.
    (also Having picked up all the plum I put it into a cask.)
    (also I picked up the plum and put it into a cask.)
    (but After I had picked all the plum up I put it into a cask, would mean that there was a reasonable or a long time distance between my activities.)

    The third clause
    which had been made up of fairly dry oak planks refers further through the past (going to long past, the second past) with the reasonable time distance to the simple past.

    The fourth part of the sentence describes how the planks had been tied up when the cask had been (was being?) made.

    If we go more and more further through the past (third past, sorry for counting, second past, third past, we are going through the only one past actually) we simply use the same past perfect tense together with (or without) the conjuctions that were mentioned at the begining of this post.

    The cask stood in a small stone house which had been made up a long time before either any plum tree had been (was being?) planted there or the cask had been (was?) made up. And nobody knew who had built it actually and who was the first one who had cleaned up the area and prepared it for setting up a home there, there in the midle of the high altitude wilderness which is surounded with very high mountin pinnacles as well. Whoever he was he had to have had a lot of work to do but I'm sure he had done it well, actually very well. I am sure the walls had had small holes instead of windows when the house had been (was being?) made for the first time.
    (Dear native teachers please tell me is it possible to use was being made instead of had been made in such the case??? I think it is but I'm not completelly sure about. My opinion is that was being made doesn't refer to any time in the past but just says that it was being made for a while in the past and the past perfect tense which is used before the pasive past continuous tense in the sentence determine the aspect)
    Also I wonder is it possible to use was made up instead of had been made up in such the case. Was made up is simple past tense in passive but because of the context it might have been used here. Anyway I am not completelly sure about.)

    All right, in addition, let us look at the sentence!

    I went there as soon as I heard from you.

    I think it isn't possible to say

    I went there as soon as I had heard from you. (wrong)

    The conjuction as soon as and idea of a reasonable or a long time between events wouldn't work together I think.

    Finally I wanna say I can use past continuous tense instead of one of the simple past tenses just to emphasize that I was doing something for a while before I did or got something else.

    I was digging hard until I got the treasure afterwhat I sat down and relaxed.

    Anyway corrections of my posts are very welcome. That's my way of faster getting on.
    Last edited by e2e4; 29-Jun-2008 at 13:56.


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    #7

    Re: I had had

    Quote Originally Posted by e2e4 View Post
    learner

    If some things happened (were happening?) in the past but one after another I think I should use conjuctions of time such as after, before, until, as soon as, etc, together with the simple past tense of all of the main verbs used in the clauses which are connected.

    After I picked up all the plum I put it into a cask which had been made up of fairly dry oak planks that were tied up with four wide and strong iron hoops.

    After I picked up all the plum, I put it into a cask.
    This two clauses both refer to the one simple past.
    (also Having picked up all the plum I put it into a cask.)
    (also I picked up the plum and put it into a cask.)
    (but After I had picked all the plum up I put it into a cask, would mean that there was a reasonable or a long time distance between my activities.)

    The third clause
    which had been made up of fairly dry oak planks refers further through the past (going to long past, the second past) with the reasonable time distance to the simple past.

    The fourth part of the sentence describes how the planks had been tied up when the cask had been (was being?) made.

    If we go more and more further through the past (third past, sorry for counting, second past, third past, we are going through the only one past actually) we simply use the same past perfect tense together with (or without) the conjuctions that were mentioned at the begining of this post.

    The cask stood in a small stone house which had been made up a long time before either any plum tree had been (was being?) planted there or the cask had been (was?) made up. And nobody knew who had built it actually and who was the first one who had cleaned up the area and prepared for setting up a home there, there in the midle of the high altitude wilderness which is surounded with very high mountin pinnacles as well. Whoever he was he had to have had a lot of work to do but I'm sure he had done it well, actually very well. I am sure the walls had had small holes instead of windows when the house had been (was being?) made for the first time.
    (Dear native teachers please tell me is it possible to use was being made instead of had been made in such the case??? I think it is but I'm not completelly sure about. My opinion is that was being made doesn't refer to any time in the past but just says that it was being made for a while in the past and the past perfect tense which is used before the pasive past continuous tense in the sentence determine the aspect)
    Also I wonder is it possible to use was made up instead of had been made up in such the case. Was made up is simple past tense in passive but because of the context it might have been used here. Anyway I am not completelly sure about.)

    All right, in addition, let us look at the sentence!

    I went there as soon as I heard from you.

    I think it isn't possible to say

    I went there as soon as I had heard from you. (wrong)

    The conjuction as soon as and idea of a reasonable or a long time between events wouldn't work together I think.

    Finally I wanna say I can use past continuous tense instead of one of the simple past tenses just to emphasize that I was doing something for a while before I did or got something else.

    I was digging hard until I got the treasure afterwhat I sat down and relaxed.

    Anyway corrections of my posts are very welcome. That's my way of faster getting on.
    Brevity is the soul of wit.

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    #8

    Re: I had had



    Dear Clark why wouldn't you keep a civil tongue in your head?

    In addition
    I think the posts, especially the long ones, shouldn't be quoted just like that because it asks a lot of the server memory.
    Also it takes time and money every time we access the page.
    And it's boring to see it (it=empty subject) again especially if goes immediatelly after the original.
    The worst is that I haven't seen any of the corrections I have been waiting for.
    Anyway what to do? I learn the best from my own mistakes.
    If I could have said (had said?, said?) all what I did in the last post but using a few short but great sentences I would be a teacher and not a learner.

    Finally I'am still waiting a help I asked for in my the last post.
    You'd better help now about my the last sentence, not only the bold but coloured one. It's about unreal conditionals you've liked much. So go on.

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    #9

    Re: I had had

    If I could have said all that I did in the last post but using a few short but great sentences, I would be a teacher and not a learner. Good sentence e2e4 (with my small correction)

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    #10

    Re: I had had

    First off all I think you've saved the Clark's life. He'd have answered if he'd known it, of course.
    Hey Clark when you find out about the meaning of the idiom don't take it to your heart much. I do not care for anyway. I used the idiom just to put you searching...nothing else.
    Maybe I am typing stupidities because you might have gone for a lunch actually or got asleep at a beach ejoying the sun light or you gone windsurfing. (you mentioned to have been on holiday these days)

    Quote Originally Posted by bhaisahab View Post
    If I could have said all that I did in the last post but using a few short but great sentences, I would be a teacher and not a learner. Good sentence e2e4 (with my small correction)
    The smallest things are the hardest to see!

    But can you explain why the that is so important in this conditional that can not be omitted?

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