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  1. stuartnz's Avatar
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    #11

    Re: Is the author of this essay a native speaker of English or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by banderas View Post
    Thanks again, Stuart!
    By the way,what is a SOL?
    Second or Other Language, as in ESOL.

  2. stuartnz's Avatar
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    #12

    Re: Is the author of this essay a native speaker of English or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by banderas View Post
    Thanks, RonBee for your input.
    The mountain running could be a sport. It is like running but in the mountains. I might possibly be wrong...
    You're not wrong. Mountain running is an established discipline and I am fairly sure it's an Olympic sport now. It gets a reasonably high profile here because a NZ woman is one of the top female mountain runners at the moment.

  3. banderas's Avatar
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    #13

    Re: Is the author of this essay a native speaker of English or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by stuartnz View Post
    Second or Other Language, as in ESOL.
    I should have known that,
    cheers.

  4. banderas's Avatar
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    #14

    Re: Is the author of this essay a native speaker of English or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by stuartnz View Post
    You're not wrong. Mountain running is an established discipline and I am fairly sure it's an Olympic sport now. It gets a reasonably high profile here because a NZ woman is one of the top female mountain runners at the moment.
    Gee, it must be tough to run in the mountains. What's her name?
    What is the highest summit in NZ? I wonder where she trains? Probably abroad in Kenya or sometning.

  5. stuartnz's Avatar
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    #15

    Re: Is the author of this essay a native speaker of English or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by banderas View Post
    Gee, it must be tough to run in the mountains. What's her name?
    What is the highest summit in NZ? I wonder where she trains? Probably abroad in Kenya or sometning.

    Mountain running as I understand it is more about the terrain than the altitude. Our highest peaks are all in the 3500-4000 metre range, so they're not that tall, but they are alpine mountains that one could not run on. She lives and trains in our capital city, Wellington, which is VERY hilly and steep, as are most mountain running courses that I've seen on TV. Personally, I have an almost religious conviction that mountains are for admiring from a distance, not for running down and DEFINTITELY not for running UP.

  6. Soup's Avatar
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    #16

    Re: Is the author of this essay a native speaker of English or not?

    A non-native speaker wrote this. For example, the writer has low-level errors that a native speaker wouldn't make; e.g., determiners; cannot believe that I was never; not regret, but I feel I am still; the writing also shows the classic signs of mixed register; many different; perhaps, it is said, etc.
    When I was younger I had a dream to become a great footbal player. I was really good and there was nothing to stop me from making my dream come true, except for me. I tried many different sports and even was a member of national team of moutnain runners. At the age of 18 I decided that sport should not be so important and chose to do something else for living. I do not regret my decision but I feel I am still in love with sport. Wherever I go and play football or basketball, people around me are amazed how good I am. They cannot believe that I was never a professional. It is just a natural talent...Who knows, perhaps I should stick to my passion and make a fortune as Frank Lampard and others did playing a funny game called football? On the other hand, it is said, when you do something every day, your passion gradually becomes your profession and is no fun any more. Did I save my passion from becoming a boring routine? I hope so.

  7. stuartnz's Avatar
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    #17

    Re: Is the author of this essay a native speaker of English or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soup View Post
    A non-native speaker wrote this. For example, the writer has low-level errors that a native speaker wouldn't make; e.g., determiners; cannot believe that I was never; not regret, but I feel I am still; the writing also shows the classic signs of mixed register; many different; perhaps, it is said, etc.

    Sorry, but I simply have to disagree. I AM a native speaker, and I hear other native speakers using constructions like this a lot. In the case of least two that you cite, I do not regret my decision but I feel I am still in love with sport. and They cannot believe that I was never a professional.I find nothing wrong with them and would likely use the same constructions myself. You may be right that a non-native speaker wrote the passage, but your assertions regarding the proofs for that conclusion are invalid. The examples of mixed register you cite as proof that a non-native speaker wrote this passage all sound completely natural to me. I am not a professional teacher, so I can't comment on the quality of the writing, and indeed don't understand what's wrong with "many different", or "perhaps" in the context of the paragraph. What I do know as a simple matter of fact is that the use of phrases like these is not incontrovertible evidence that the writer is not a native English speaker. Spend a fortnight in New Zealand and you too would realise this.

  8. Soup's Avatar
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    #18

    Re: Is the author of this essay a native speaker of English or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by stuartnz View Post
    I AM a native speaker, ...
    Most teachers here are, but nativeness won't buy you much. Experience, however, will. Which is what my humble opinion is based on.

    ___________________
    My apologies for not having given an in depth explanation for my view. I could be wrong, I could be right; nevertheless, 20 years of correcting papers in 4 countries as well as my background in theoretical linguistics kind of help me out now and then.

  9. stuartnz's Avatar
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    #19

    Re: Is the author of this essay a native speaker of English or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soup View Post
    Most teachers here are, but nativeness won't buy you much. Experience, however, will. Which is what my humble opinion is based on.
    As I said, I'm not disputing your conclusion, simply the "proofs" you use to support it. You said that it contained "low-level errors that a native speaker wouldn't make"(e.a.) The phrases and constructions you then cited may be errors, I am not qualified to comment on that, but I know for a fact that many, many native speakers do use those constructions, or "make those errors." Errors they may well be, but they are not conclusive proof that the person using them does not have English as their first language. Unless, of course, the thousands of monolingual New Zealanders I've conversed with in my 40 years are not actually native speakers of English. They would likely be surprised to learn this.

  10. Soup's Avatar
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    #20

    Re: Is the author of this essay a native speaker of English or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by stuartnz View Post
    Errors they may well be, but they are not conclusive proof that the person using them does not have English as their first language.
    I'm willing to risk it, though. My professional opinion, the writer is not a native speaker. The "clean" patterns (e.g., consistency in omitting the second subject in compound construction) coupled with what's not there (e.g., native-like prose) is what's highly suspect. Word choice is also an indicator, but that, as you have mentioned, is difficult to prove, but it is a sign.

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