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  1. Key Member
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    #21

    Re: Is the author of this essay a native speaker of English or not?

    I would think the author of the 'essay' is a native speaker just from the chatty demeanor and the tendency to ramble.
    Not that I'm say all native speakers are like that.

  2. stuartnz's Avatar
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    #22

    Re: Is the author of this essay a native speaker of English or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soup View Post
    I'm willing to risk it, though. My professional opinion, the writer is not a native speaker. The "clean" patterns (e.g., consistency in omitting the second subject in compound construction) coupled with what's not there (e.g., native-like prose) is what's highly suspect. Word choice is also an indicator, but that, as you have mentioned, is difficult to prove, but it is a sign.

    This could be an interesting field for study. Most, but not all, of the constructions you flag as being indicative of non-native speakers are natural for me personally and are in common use in NZ. There has not been much work done on Maori English, but since the paragraph as written could very easily have been written by many speakers of Maori English, I wonder if that might be part of the reason for the difference.

  3. banderas's Avatar
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    #23

    Re: Is the author of this essay a native speaker of English or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soup View Post
    A non-native speaker wrote this. For example, the writer has low-level errors that a native speaker wouldn't make; e.g., determiners; cannot believe that I was never; not regret, but I feel I am still; the writing also shows the classic signs of mixed register; many different; perhaps, it is said, etc.
    When I was younger I had a dream to become a great footbal player. I was really good and there was nothing to stop me from making my dream come true, except for me. I tried many different sports and even was a member of national team of moutnain runners. At the age of 18 I decided that sport should not be so important and chose to do something else for living. I do not regret my decision but I feel I am still in love with sport. Wherever I go and play football or basketball, people around me are amazed how good I am. They cannot believe that I was never a professional. It is just a natural talent...Who knows, perhaps I should stick to my passion and make a fortune as Frank Lampard and others did playing a funny game called football? On the other hand, it is said, when you do something every day, your passion gradually becomes your profession and is no fun any more. Did I save my passion from becoming a boring routine? I hope so.
    Thanks, Soup for your assesment. As I understand, in your opinion, a native would use some others expressiosn than those in purple? Could you replace these low-level errors and compose it as an average native would do?

  4. banderas's Avatar
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    #24

    Re: Is the author of this essay a native speaker of English or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soup View Post
    I'm willing to risk it, though. My professional opinion, the writer is not a native speaker. The "clean" patterns (e.g., consistency in omitting the second subject in compound construction) coupled with what's not there (e.g., native-like prose) is what's highly suspect. Word choice is also an indicator, but that, as you have mentioned, is difficult to prove, but it is a sign.
    Hi again,
    Could you explain where exactly the author omitted the second subjecti in compound construction? What do you mean by "what's not there"? What should be there to make you think the author was a native speaker of English?
    Thanks,

    Banderas

  5. banderas's Avatar
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    #25

    Re: Is the author of this essay a native speaker of English or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by stuartnz View Post
    This could be an interesting field for study. Most, but not all, of the constructions you flag as being indicative of non-native speakers are natural for me personally and are in common use in NZ. There has not been much work done on Maori English, but since the paragraph as written could very easily have been written by many speakers of Maori English, I wonder if that might be part of the reason for the difference.
    A very interesting disscussion! I can tell you, Stuart, that the author might not have anything to do with Maori English and still be able to compose that essey.

  6. Key Member
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    #26

    Re: Is the author of this essay a native speaker of English or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by banderas View Post
    Is the autor of this essay a native speaker of English or not?If not, how would a native write all this?
    (I won't read the subsequent posts, until I've answered.)

    I would say "possibly not"; indicators of non-native origin are:

    1. When I was younger I had a dream to become [of becoming]

    2. and even was a member of national team of moutnain runners. [of a]

    3. make a fortune as Frank Lampard and others did [have done]

    4. it is said, when you do something every day [sounds like a translation]

    But #2 might be a typo, and #3 isn't an error. It's only the conjunction of those 4 points that makes me wonder.

    (Now I'll read the rest of the thread and discover it was some well known Old Etonian.)

    MrP
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  7. Soup's Avatar
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    #27

    Re: Is the author of this essay a native speaker of English or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by stuartnz View Post
    This could be an interesting field for study.
    It is. It's called Forensic Linguistics. Click here Dr. M

    Quote Originally Posted by stuartnz
    There has not been much work done on Maori English,
    On the contrary. Check out the titles and dates here Linguistic Society of New Zealand. And those are just by NZ linguists.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuartnz
    ... but since the paragraph as written could very easily have been written by many speakers of Maori English, I wonder if that might be part of the reason for the difference.
    Maori English, though, is not Standard English, right?
    ________________
    Note, for my master's thesis, I documented the grammar of a First Nations' language spoken in Alaska and the Yukon Territory. The language had less than 10 speakers (all elders); their grandchildren spoke English, but it wasn't Standard English--it was more of a hybrid or mixture of their grandfather's language and their language, English. They did not speak the language of their grandparents'. The same relatively holds true for Maori, or at least that was the case in the 1970s:
    Since the 1970s there have been enormous efforts in Aotearoa/New Zealand to revitalize Mäori as a language for everyday communication, particularly in educational settings. These efforts are given urgency by the fact that the most current estimate by Te Puni Kökiri (the Ministry of Mäori Development) indicates that Mäori is spoken fairly well or better by only 20 % of the adult Mäori population. Immersion education is making an important contribution to Mäori language revitalization.

    Linguist List - Dissertation Abstracts

  8. Key Member
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    #28

    Re: Is the author of this essay a native speaker of English or not?

    I have heard of NZ English or Kiwi English but not Maori English!

    NZ English is pretty much the same as Australian English except for the accents and slangs, the difference is not so much in the written language.

    It would be unrealistic to expect all native speakers write perfect English, free of grammer mistakes.
    Last edited by tedtmc; 05-Jul-2008 at 12:25.

  9. banderas's Avatar
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    #29

    Re: Is the author of this essay a native speaker of English or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPedantic View Post
    (I won't read the subsequent posts, until I've answered.)

    I would say "possibly not"; indicators of non-native origin are:

    1. When I was younger I had a dream to become [of becoming]

    2. and even was a member of national team of moutnain runners. [of a]

    3. make a fortune as Frank Lampard and others did [have done]

    4. it is said, when you do something every day [sounds like a translation]

    But #2 might be a typo, and #3 isn't an error. It's only the conjunction of those 4 points that makes me wonder.

    (Now I'll read the rest of the thread and discover it was some well known Old Etonian.)

    MrP
    Thanks, MrPedantic,
    That's true that "dream goes with "of" or "about" together. Is it always worng to say "dream to become" like in this example:
    SARA Search Results

    Are "It is said, it is believed" not passive constructions for expressing people say, people believe"?

  10. banderas's Avatar
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    #30

    Re: Is the author of this essay a native speaker of English or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by tedtmc View Post

    It would be unrealistic to expect all native speakers write perfect English, free from grammer mistakes.
    A very good point!!!

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