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    #1

    correction of a sentence

    Although his wife was nearly eighty when she dided, he liked to remember as she was when they first met ----is given as correct.

    but what is wrong with---- Although his wife was nearly eighty when she dided, he liked to remember as she was when they had first met . Had needs to be used right?


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    #2

    Re: correction of a sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by kiranlegend View Post
    Although his wife was nearly eighty when she dided, he liked to remember as she was when they first met ----is given as correct.

    but what is wrong with---- Although his wife was nearly eighty when she dided, he liked to remember as she was when they had first met . Had needs to be used right?
    The sentence correctly should read:

    Although his wife was nearly eighty when she died, he liked to remember her as she was when they first met.

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    #3

    Re: correction of a sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by Anglika View Post
    The sentence correctly should read:

    Although his wife was nearly eighty when she died, he liked to remember her as she was when they first met.

    Thanks Anglika. But what is wrong if I replace as she was when they first met with as she was when they had first met?


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    #4

    Re: correction of a sentence

    Although his wife was nearly eighty when she died, he liked to remember her as she was when they had first met . 'Had' needs to be used right?

    Why do you think Past Perfect tense is called for?

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    #5

    Re: correction of a sentence

    Quote Originally Posted by David L. View Post
    Although his wife was nearly eighty when she died, he liked to remember her as she was when they had first met . 'Had' needs to be used right?

    Why do you think Past Perfect tense is called for?

    he had met her before she died -- since the meeting of them took place before she died i feel had is necessary.. actually usage of had always confuses me. Sorry, If i'm being stupid!


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    #6

    Re: correction of a sentence

    he had met her before she died -- since the meeting of them took place before she died i feel had is necessary.. actually usage of had always confuses me. Sorry, If i'm being stupid!

    Far from being stupid, you have helped me to understand your reasoning.

    Although his wife was nearly eighty when she died, he liked to remember her as she was when they (had??) first met.


    Certainly, it is logical that he met her, then married her - the 'meeting' came before the 'marriage'. But is this comparison being referred to in the communication?
    Would it change it if we left out the opening clause ?- (it just adds background information):
    "He liked to remember her as she was when they first met."
    Would you still consider that Past Perfect tense should be used instead?
    If so, what two actions are we comparing, and which action are we placing earlier than the other?
    We have 3 actions going on from which to choose 2:
    He liked to remember
    as she was
    when they ( ) first met.

    He met her before she died -- since the meeting of them took place before she died i feel 'had' is necessary

    Suddenly, we don't even have an action of 'died' to compare 'meeting/met' to, in terms of placing them in some time frame!.

    What's more, if we reduce the sentence even more:
    "He liked to remember her as she was."
    This is a valid sentence. 'as she was' leaves it wide open: 'as she was before she became ill'; 'as she was on her wedding day' - anything!
    So - 'when they first met' modifies 'as she was' and makes that more specific.

    In the sentence, 'as she was' and 'first met' are exactly the same moment in time: I meet you, see you, take a mental snapshot. Why are we trying to place 'meeting/met' before 'as she was' when they are the same point in time?

    So, the two main actions remaining are 'liked', and 'as she was'; so to place one further back in time with Past Perfect:
    "He liked to remember her as she had been."

    HEY. What's happened? Suddenly, we have a valid use of Past Perfect in the sentence, but (1) not in the place you thought it should be, and (2) how does it change the meaning? - why would a native speaker choose one or the other?
    "Although his wife was nearly eighty when she died, he liked to remember her as she had been when they first met."

    'as she was' is Simple Past tense, a statement of fact. Past Perfect is stressing a comparison between two things in time; so now, for the person hearing this sentence, something is left unsaid, some comparison. If the speaker himself did not go on, the hearer would ask, why? - why did he like/prefer to remember her as she had been? The full communication would now be something like this:
    "Although his wife was nearly eighty when she died, he liked to remember her as she had been when they first met. It was less painful that way than remembering how the illness of those final years had ravaged her once youthful face."
    The comparison is: 'had been' beautiful and youthful before, compared to the last few years when she looked so ravaged by sickness.

    I'm not sure how much this has clarified, and how much I have just added to your confusion - so don't hesitate to ask further questions if I have only confused you!
    Last edited by David L.; 24-Jul-2008 at 16:22.

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    #7

    Re: correction of a sentence

    I have to do lot of reading on this post.

    I will read, and once I do I will post my questions if i have any.

    So much of patience?? God! Thanks so much David!:)

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