Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 14
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Telugu
      • Home Country:
      • India
      • Current Location:
      • India

    • Join Date: Jun 2008
    • Posts: 447
    #1

    shall or no shall

    to whom shall i need to talk to
    to whom i need to talk to

    what difference is the usage of shall bringing here? are the both sentences correct?

  1. Raymott's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Australia
      • Current Location:
      • Australia

    • Join Date: Jun 2008
    • Posts: 24,091
    #2

    Re: shall or no shall

    Quote Originally Posted by kiranlegend View Post
    to whom shall i need to talk to
    to whom i need to talk to

    what difference is the usage of shall bringing here? are the both sentences correct?
    Neither is correct, and neither would be colloquial even if it were.
    Many English-speaking people pass their whole lives without using "shall".
    I would say:
    "Who do I need to talk to?" or "To whom do I need to talk" if you prefer that.
    Or "Who should I talk to?"


    • Join Date: Nov 2007
    • Posts: 5,409
    #3

    Re: shall or no shall

    to whom shall i need to talk to
    to whom i need to talk to


    In the first sentence, you are asking for advice, so the form of 'shall' that must be used is 'should' :
    To whom should I talk?

    The second sentence should be:

    To whom do I need to talk?

    BUT - understand these sentences are formal and very grammatically 'correct'.
    In everyday life, a person would say:
    Who do I need to talk to?
    and
    Who should I talk to?

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Telugu
      • Home Country:
      • India
      • Current Location:
      • India

    • Join Date: Jun 2008
    • Posts: 447
    #4

    Re: shall or no shall

    good good I am learning English:)

    You know, sometimes small things such as these add immense confidence for me to speak. My dream is to become a great Orator, and many a time i feel inhibited at things as small as these. I try to speak flawless English, and in the process I loose my flow. This place is a great one! don't know, but want to show my appreciation to you all now:)




    anyway coming back to the question ( "To whom should I talk?

    To whom do I need to talk?"), i've coupla questions i think:


    1) First sentence is like seeking an advice right? What about the second sentence? What kind of question was the second one? Authoritative or just Normal tone. also what difference is it going to make if i use Shall?

    Raymott said, " Shall is avoided my English speakers" Why?:o


    • Join Date: Nov 2007
    • Posts: 5,409
    #5

    Re: shall or no shall

    Firstly, great orators do not use 'poor education' words like 'coupla'.
    Save that for some blog on some pop culture website.

    1) First sentence is like seeking an advice right? What about the second sentence? What kind of question was the second one? Authoritative or just Normal tone. also what difference is it going to make if i use Shall?

    also what difference is it going to make if i use Shall?
    This is like asking, "What difference does it make if I use 'is', and say "I is" instead of "I am". You don't ever say "I is."

    When you are giving or seeking advice, you do not use 'shall', only 'should'
    "Whom should I talk to?"

    First sentence is like seeking an advice right? What about the second sentence? What kind of question was the second one?
    Look at this scenario:
    There is a hole in your street which has not been repaired, and you decide you will phone the councll to complain. You ring and the receptionist answers, and you tell her why you are ringing and ask:
    YOU: To whom should I talk?
    SHE: You need our Water and Sanitation Department. I'll put you through.
    (You are put through, and again explain why you are ringing. The person says:
    W&S Dept: Oh, you've been put through to the wrong department. We only dig roads up to put pipes down. We don't mend roads.
    Silence. You are feeling irritated that the Receptionist doesn't know who looks after what in this Council; and the W&S person isn't being particularly helpful. So, you have to ask, a little impatiently:
    YOU: So..then...to whom do I need to talk?!

    It is not that the second sentence is a different kind of question, but when we might use this phrasing, in what situation.

    Another situation might be:
    A product you bought yesterday is damaged and you go to the store to return it. You go up to a salesman, but you are unsure whether the salesmen look after 'Returns' - they may have a separate section, or somebody who specifically deals with that. So you intimate to the salesman that you are looking for the right person who deals with your query by asking, "Whom do I need to talk to about returning a faulty toaster, please?"

    Say. instead. you just went straight up to the salesman and said, "I'd like to return this toaster." He might then reply, "Oh, you need to talk to Mike at the Returns counter."
    Last edited by David L.; 26-Jul-2008 at 05:34.

  2. bhaisahab's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Ireland

    • Join Date: Apr 2008
    • Posts: 25,590
    #6

    Re: shall or no shall

    " Shall is avoided my English speakers" Why?

    I don't think 'shall' is avoided by English speakers, it is falling out of use in speech, also it is not taught in most English schools any more. Personally I like it and use it and it is still widely used among educated people that I know in India.

  3. SUDHKAMP's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Kannada
      • Home Country:
      • India
      • Current Location:
      • India

    • Join Date: Apr 2008
    • Posts: 21,191
    #7

    Re: shall or no shall

    Quote Originally Posted by bhaisahab View Post
    " Shall is avoided my English speakers" Why?

    I don't think 'shall' is avoided by English speakers, it is falling out of use in speech, also it is not taught in most English schools any more. Personally I like it and use it and it is still widely used among educated people that I know in India.
    Indians are still using that age old English grammar book called, "The High School English Grammar & Composition" by Wren And Martin, to learn English Grammar. (I also learnt my Grammar from the same book)
    This book has one whole exercise explaining the difference between shall and will; should and would.
    My English teacher often asked random questions regarding usage of should/shall. I still remember, it is about the determination or the intent of the mind. If you are not sure about the future course of action than you use shall/should. If you are sure or determined of action in future than you use will/would.

    Thus the following sentences show determination of mind:
    1) I will visit Bhaisahab in France.
    2) I would visit Bhaisahab in France if I recieve an invitation from him.

    The following sentences show that action is not certain or you are not certain to perform what you are saying:
    1) I shall visit Bhaisahab in France.
    2) I should visit Bhaisahab in France if I recieve an invitation from him.

    Here should replaces may, which shows uncertainty.


    • Join Date: Nov 2007
    • Posts: 5,409
    #8

    Re: shall or no shall

    Thus the following sentences show determination of mind:
    1) I will visit Bhaisahab in France.
    2) I would visit Bhaisahab in France if I recieve an invitation from him.

    The following sentences show that action is not certain or you are not certain to perform what you are saying:
    1) I shall visit Bhaisahab in France.
    2) I should visit Bhaisahab in France if I recieve an invitation from him.

    Oh, dear. Such sentences are great in grammar books to help understand such finer points of grammar...but no right-minded person would ever actually SAY this, phrase it in such terms; so the grammar of it becomes pointless.

    A native speaker in Britain, hearing "I shall visit Bhaisahab in France" would have the reaction, "My God, who do they think they are? Royalty?"
    The sentence may be some correct use of 'shall' but makes the speaker sound pretentious and pompous!
    In conversation, all of these distinctions in usage are obviated, because we would use contractions, so whether 'will visit' or 'shall visit', it would be said as "I'll be visiting.." - in conversation this covers both "I hope to visit" and "I'm going to visit/I intend visiting..". If we needed to be clear that we were uncertain/definite, we would use one of the forms in blue.
    and
    "I'd visit...if..."
    Last edited by David L.; 26-Jul-2008 at 12:00.

  4. IvanV's Avatar

    • Join Date: Oct 2007
    • Posts: 576
    #9

    Re: shall or no shall

    Quote Originally Posted by David L. View Post
    A native speaker in Britain, hearing "I shall visit Bhaisahab in France" would have the reaction, "My God, who do they think they are? Royalty?"
    The sentence may be some correct use of 'shall' but makes the speaker sound pretentious and pompous!
    Exactly!

  5. bhaisahab's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Ireland

    • Join Date: Apr 2008
    • Posts: 25,590
    #10

    Re: shall or no shall

    A native speaker in Britain, hearing "I shall visit Bhaisahab in France" would have the reaction, "My God, who do they think they are? Royalty?"
    The sentence may be some correct use of 'shall' but makes the speaker sound pretentious and pompous!

    I respectfully beg to differ, I think that, for example, "This winter I think I shall visit SUDHKAMP in India." is not at all pompous or pretentious.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •