Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12

    • Join Date: Sep 2008
    • Posts: 4
    #1

    "To a man such as he"... or "such as him"?

    Hello.

    I have done some searching, but I am still not entirely certain. Suppose I have this sentence:

    "To a man such as he, this was hard to stomach."

    Is the "he" correct, or should it be "him"? And what is the rule?

    "A man" in the sentence is obviously accusative (controlled by the preposition "to"). Maybe the two sides of the "such as" are supposed to agree in case, which would make "him" the correct answer.

    But maybe the phrase "a man such as he" should be considered a contraction of "a man who is such as he is". If this is correct, then one should go with "he".

    I am thinking that the second theory is correct, but I would like to know for certain. What do you say?

    Thanks in advance.
    - Spectrum

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Canada
      • Current Location:
      • Canada

    • Join Date: Apr 2007
    • Posts: 4,146
    #2

    Re: "To a man such as he"... or "such as him"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spectrum View Post
    Hello.

    I have done some searching, but I am still not entirely certain. Suppose I have this sentence:

    "To a man such as he, this was hard to stomach."
    Is the "he" correct, or should it be "him"? And what is the rule?

    "A man" in the sentence is obviously accusative (controlled by the preposition "to"). Maybe the two sides of the "such as" are supposed to agree in case, which would make "him" the correct answer. Yes, as the sentence is

    But maybe the phrase "a man such as he" should be considered a contraction of "a man who is such as he is". If this is correct, then one should go with "he".

    I am thinking that the second theory is correct, but I would like to know for certain. What do you say?

    Thanks in advance.
    - Spectrum
    With the sentence as it is, that is without an added 'is', "him" is correct.
    To him, this was hard to stomach.
    To a man like him, this was hard to stomach.
    To a man such as him, this was hard to stomach.

    In the above sentences the words preceding "him" are prepositions, so the object form "him" is correct.

    Now if you want to say 'To a man such as he is, this was hard to stomach.', that would be correct too. You would need the subject form "he" because you have created the clause 'he is'. (obviously you would not say 'him is')

    It is exactly comparable to 'He is taller than me.' and 'He is taller than I am.'
    Last edited by 2006; 15-Sep-2008 at 05:03.


    • Join Date: Sep 2008
    • Posts: 4
    #3

    Re: "To a man such as he"... or "such as him"?

    Thanks for the reply.

    You say that the "man such as him" corresponds to "taller than him". The last one looked controversial to me, so I did some more searching. I found some other posts claiming that "taller than he" is correct (see mykwyner's post in this thread and engee30's post in this thread.

    Now I am confused.

    If "taller than he" and "taller than him" are equally correct, and the two cases are "exactly comparable", as you say, does this mean that "to a man such as he" is also equally correct?

    Or what?

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Canada
      • Current Location:
      • Canada

    • Join Date: Apr 2007
    • Posts: 4,146
    #4

    Re: "To a man such as he"... or "such as him"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spectrum View Post
    Thanks for the reply.

    You say that the "man such as him" corresponds to "taller than him". Yes, they correspond because both "as" and 'than" are prepositions. You asked about "the rule", and to me the rule is that the object form follows a preposition. (eg. 'to me' and 'for him') The last one looked controversial to me, so I did some more searching. I found some other posts claiming that "taller than he" is correct (see mykwyner's post in this thread
    mykwyner seemed to be saying that the pronoun isn't serving as an object so the subject form should be used. But one can also say that it isn't serving as a subject either. (unless you force it to be a subject by adding "is" after it to make a clause) So I think we go back to the preposition rule.
    I am not sure what engee30 is saying.

    Now I am confused. Sorry about that but you have to decide for yourself. I think you will hear more people saying "him".

    If "taller than he" and "taller than him" are equally correct, No, I think "taller than him" is correct, and that is what my dictionary says too. Actually its example is "You are older than me."
    and the two cases are "exactly comparable", as you say, does this mean that "to a man such as he" is also equally correct? No, that's not what I would say, but maybe others would.

    Or what?
    2006

  1. engee30's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Polish
      • Home Country:
      • Poland
      • Current Location:
      • England

    • Join Date: Apr 2006
    • Posts: 2,969
    #5

    Smile Re: "To a man such as he"... or "such as him"?

    I'd stick to the statement that 2006 already made about this issue -you use the objective case of the pronoun in the phrase To + noun + such as + pronoun. But I've got the feeling that the nominative case of the pronoun would also be accepted.



    • Join Date: Sep 2008
    • Posts: 4
    #6

    Re: "To a man such as he"... or "such as him"?

    The core of the argument, as far as I understand, is that "as" is a preposition and therefore controls the objective case (unless what follows the preposition is a complete sentence, or a contraction of one). Am I right?

    All right, thanks for the replies.

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Canada
      • Current Location:
      • Canada

    • Join Date: Apr 2007
    • Posts: 4,146
    #7

    Re: "To a man such as he"... or "such as him"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spectrum View Post
    The core of the argument, as far as I understand, is that "as" is a preposition and therefore controls the objective case (unless what follows the preposition is a complete sentence, or a contraction of one). Am I right? yes

    All right, thanks for the replies.
    2006

  2. engee30's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Polish
      • Home Country:
      • Poland
      • Current Location:
      • England

    • Join Date: Apr 2006
    • Posts: 2,969
    #8

    Smile Re: "To a man such as he"... or "such as him"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spectrum View Post
    The core of the argument, as far as I understand, is that "as" is a preposition and therefore controls the objective case (unless what follows the preposition is a complete sentence, or a contraction of one). Am I right?

    All right, thanks for the replies.
    You're sorta right about it.

    Sometimes one word may have different functions in the sentence:

    She played darts better than me. where than functions as preposition.
    She played darts better than I did. where than functions as conjunction.
    She played darts better than I. here, than functions as conjunction with the predicate in ellipsis.



    • Join Date: Sep 2008
    • Posts: 4
    #9

    Re: "To a man such as he"... or "such as him"?

    Quote Originally Posted by engee30 View Post
    You're sorta right about it.

    Sometimes one word may have different functions in the sentence:

    She played darts better than me. where than functions as preposition.
    She played darts better than I did. where than functions as conjunction.
    She played darts better than I. here, than functions as conjunction with the predicate in ellipsis.

    Ooooooo. So "as" is multi-classed? Naughty. :P

  3. engee30's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Polish
      • Home Country:
      • Poland
      • Current Location:
      • England

    • Join Date: Apr 2006
    • Posts: 2,969
    #10

    Cool Re: "To a man such as he"... or "such as him"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spectrum View Post
    Ooooooo. So "as" is multi-classed? Naughty. :P
    In your case, you shouldn't look at as as a stand-alone word only. Rather, as the part of the phrase such as, it being a multi-word preposiotion.


Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. "to make a call" or "to have made a call"
    By sakura-saku in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 21-Dec-2007, 15:58
  2. "to pee" vs "to piss"
    By jctgf in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 15-Dec-2007, 17:08
  3. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-Nov-2007, 22:34
  4. "to make" x "to do"
    By jctgf in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-Nov-2007, 00:45
  5. "To trap" vs "to entrap"
    By micaelo in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 31-Oct-2007, 15:52

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •