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  1. Unregistered
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    #1

    What is the gift?

    Ephesians 2:8 (NIV) For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - (9) not by works, so that no one can boast.
    My question is, what is the gift, grace or faith? Furthermore what is the word gift, subject, verb, noun or? How would this sentence be diagramed?

  2. Soup's Avatar
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    #2

    Re: What is the gift?

    Here's another version:
    "For it is by grace that you have been saved, through faith. This does not depend on anything you have achieved, it is the free gift of God; and because it is not earned no one can boast about it." (Ephesians 2:8-9)

    Receiving Christ involves turning to God from self (a spirit of repentance) and trusting Christ to come into our lives to forgive us of our sins and make us what he wants us to be. Just to agree intellectually that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that he died on the cross for our sins is not enough. Nor is it enough to have an emotional experience. We receive Jesus Christ by faith, as an act of our will.
    It = subject, pronoun: referent faith.
    is = linking verb
    the gift = subject complement, noun phrase
    of God = prepositional phrase

    _________________
    Source http://www.whoisjesus-really.com/english/you.htm

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    #3

    Re: What is the gift?

    Soup, thank you. I posted the "what is the gift" question but needed to "register" before I could reply. So thank you for the reply. If I understand you correctly "It" is the subject, pronoun and is refering to "faith". "Is" is a linking verb. Your version has a period and then another sentence.
    So, nonetheless the gift is faith and not grace.

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    #4

    Re: What is the gift?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricci View Post
    Soup, thank you. I posted the "what is the gift" question but needed to "register" before I could reply. So thank you for the reply. If I understand you correctly "It" is the subject, pronoun and is refering to "faith". "Is" is a linking verb. Your version has a period and then another sentence.
    So, nonetheless the gift is faith and not grace.
    Hmm. Hold on. I believe I may be wrong. Could it be that "salvation"; i.e., [that] you have been saved is the referent for it? That is, gift could refer to being saved. See the 1st line of the third paragraph here:
    In Christianity, divine grace refers to the sovereign favour of God for humankind — especially in regard to salvation — irrespective of actions ("deeds"), earned worth, or proven goodness.

    Grace is enabling power sufficient for progression. Grace divine is an indispensable gift from God for development, improvement, and character expansion. Without God's grace, there are certain limitations, weaknesses, flaws, impurities, and faults (i.e. carnality) humankind cannot overcome. Therefore, it is necessary to increase in God's grace for added perfection, completeness, and flawlessness.

    More broadly, divine grace refers to God's gifts to humankind, including life, creation, and salvation. More narrowly but more commonly, grace describes the means by which humans are saved from original sin and granted salvation. This latter concept of grace is of central importance in the theology of Christianity, as well as one of the most contentious issues in Christian sectarianism.
    Grace is often distinguished from mercy in that mercy is seen as not receiving punishment that one deserves to receive, whereas grace is receiving a positive benefit that one does not deserve to receive. Divine Grace also can be defined as God's empowering presence in ones life enabling them to do and be what they were created to do and be.

    Read more here Divine grace - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    #5

    Re: What is the gift?

    Wow you are indeed a gifted writer / person. Well educated in English and it would seem Christianity. I see why you are well respected in this forum, or so it would seem by the comments you receive back. I agree with all that you have replied. However keep in mind that mine was a grammatical question not a religious question simply stated as "what is the gift?" In my study of certain aspects of certain doctrine Romans 10:17 Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the message of Christ, came up and that led me to Ephesians 2:8 and thus the question. The gift in this verse is faith although I suspect that grace is an even greater gift, and probably shows up in yet another verse. SO, now were you wrong or correct?
    I get the feeling you are in the mission field and that teaching is a part of that mission.

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    #6

    Re: What is the gift?

    Ricci, thank you for your kind words.

    The following is from http://www.glasgow-coc.org/chapt47.htm:
    Salvation is by God's grace. It is a gift from God, motivated by his love for us, and is provided through Jesus Christ. Grace means "unmerited favor." Salvation is an unearned, undeserved blessing, offered freely to all mankind, and made possible by the sacrificial death of Christ on the cross. In short, there was no way that man, the sinner, could earn or merit salvation, so God provided it for him as a gift. This is the Good News of the Gospel.

    One of the clearest statements of this theme is from the pen of the apostle Paul in Ephesians 2:8-9, where he said, "For by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, that no man should glory." This passage emphasizes that salvation is God's gift - a matter of grace. It would be impossible to overemphasize the fact that salvation is a gift from God - a matter of grace.

    In Ephesians 2:8-9, there are several key words, two of which stand out. The first is grace, the unmerited favor of God which provides salvation as a gift for all men. The second key word is faith, which is man's response to God's free gift. Salvation is by grace - on God's side; and by faith - on man's side.


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    #7

    Re: What is the gift?

    Hmm, so are we now back to the original question? Now grace is the gift.

    Of course we are saved by grace and (grace is of God) through faith and faith comes by hearing and hearing by the message of Christ who was born of a virgin, died on a cross, desended into hell, ressurected on the third day, was seen by many, (as many as 500 at one time) and assended into heaven.

    But in this verse, gramatically speaking, the gift is? Faith? In other words, religiously speaking, is faith a gift of God?

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    #8

    Re: What is the gift?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricci View Post
    But in this verse, gramatically speaking, the gift is? Faith? In other words, religiously speaking, is faith a gift of God?
    Ricci, as you may or may not know, Ephesians 2:8 is the most debated text in terms of the antecedent of the demonstrative pronoun oátoj, houtos. The standard interpretations include:

    (1) “grace” as antecedent,
    (2) “faith” as antecedent,
    (3) the concept of a grace-by-faith salvation as antecedent, and
    (4) no antecedent.


    Read one interpretation here (Determining the Antecedent for Houtos: Grace, Salvation, or Faith? Exegesis Reveals It Is Salvation)


    Here's how I interpret Paul's words:
    Ephesians 2:8 (NIV) For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it [i.e., salvation/eternal life] is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast.
    In other words, you don't have to do anything to gain God's love, because you already have it. We were saved long before the world was even created, even before Adam and Eve. The assumption is that salvation was pre-ordained. It, salvation; i.e., eternal life, is the gift, and the only thing you have to do to get it is to believe in Christ.
    Last edited by Soup; 27-Sep-2008 at 12:20.

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    #9

    Re: What is the gift?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soup View Post
    It, salvation; i.e., eternal life, is the gift, and the only thing you have to do to get it is to believe in Christ.
    Yes, and the only thing wrong with that is that faith (belief) is not something you can just choose to do, since it is a gift from God.
    People have been arguing over this for roughly two millennia. Entire denominations exist on the basis of whether they believe in salvation by faith, or salvation by good works; whether you can choose to believe, or whether God chooses who to confer belief onto.
    I think this is the main difference between Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists and Presbyterians, but I'm a bit rusty on theology.
    Paul's letters weren't always consistent, and of course, this is a translation from the Greek.

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    #10

    Re: What is the gift?

    Well SOUP, it would seem we have gotten to the heart of the question. It was my intent to keep this strictly grammatical, so as not to offend, but it would seem that God had other plans. HE (God)has given me someone who CAN and is WILLING to deal with my question. So yes my study is that of the Arminian / Calvinist debate.
    Having started out on the Arminian side without any knowledge of it the tide shifted very much toward the Calvin side. I now wish to push the tide back in the other direction, if at all possible.
    I very much enjoyed the link you sent and found it very helpful.(ftp://ftp.joegriffin.org/classnotes/cc02/CC02-314.rtf
    I have a bible software with a Greek/Hebrew Interlinear Bible but it translate the word "that" with touto as oppose to houtos.

    NT:5124
    tou=to touto (too'-to); neuter singular nominative or accusative case of NT:3778; that thing:

    KJV


    - here [-unto], it, partlyself, [-same], so, that (intent), the same, there [-fore, -unto], this, thus, where [-fore].
    Now I had no idea I had stumbled on yet another debate nor have I any recollection of an antecedent from my high school English. I am however loving the learning process. I will continue to study this matter and I thank you very much for your input.
    May the LORD bless your ministry.
    Ricci



    Last edited by Ricci; 27-Sep-2008 at 14:46.

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