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  1. Volcano1985's Avatar
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    #1

    Having + Verb3

    The doctor who carried out the study claims that the universally accepted story of Nietzsche having caught syphilis from prostitutes was concocted after World War II by Wilhelm Lange-Eichbaum, an academic who was one of Nietzsche's most vociferous critics.

    Could you explain me having + verb3 here?

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    #2

    Re: Having + Verb3

    Do you mean the perfective gerund, "having caught"?

    It is, as a verbal noun, the object of the preposition "of". The adjectival prepositional phrase "of having caught" modifies "story".

    And the meaning. There is a story that says Nietzsche caught syphilis from prostitutes; but the doctor claims that, according to his study, this story is historically false: "the universally accepted story was concocted", literally cooked, created after WWII; and the creator of the fable was one of Nietzsche's hashest critics.

    the story of Nietzsche's having caught syphilis = the story of the fact that Nietzsche caught syphilis.

    "Nietzsche" should be, according to the rules, "Nietszche's", so to modify the verbal noun "having caught". For the story is of the fact that Nietzsche caught his illness, not of Nietzsche in general. It's Nietzsche's fact.
    Last edited by abaka; 03-Feb-2009 at 01:31.


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    #3

    Re: Having + Verb3

    story of Nietzsche having caught...
    story of Nietzsche's having caught...

    CGEL judges them both grammatical.

    John's hope of Mary('s) winning a prize
    however,
    John's hope of Mary's success

    story of (Nietzsche having caught syphilis from prostitutes) -- the bracketed part is the object of the prep.

    of Nietzsche having caught syphilis from prostitutes is a prep phrase that modifies "the universally accepted story".


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    #4

    Re: Having + Verb3

    "The saxon genitive is avoided when the noun phrase is lengthy and requires a group genitive."

    of Nietzsche having caught syphilis from prostitutes

  2. Volcano1985's Avatar
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    #5

    Re: Having + Verb3

    When i searched for 'having + verb3 or perfect participle', I found such samples:

    The perfect participle can be used instead of the present participle in sentences like the one below (i.e. where one action is immediately followed by another with the same subject):

    Having read the instructions, he snatched up the fire extinguisher

    Having failed twice, he didn't want to try again

    Having been his own boss for such a long time, he found it hard to accept orders from another


    Is 'having + verb3' in the sentence about Nietzsche different than these ?

  3. BobK's Avatar
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    #6

    Re: Having + Verb3

    Quote Originally Posted by Volcano1985 View Post
    When i searched for 'having + verb3 or perfect participle', I found such samples:

    The perfect participle can be used instead of the present participle in sentences like the one below (i.e. where one action is immediately followed by another with the same subject):

    Having read the instructions, he snatched up the fire extinguisher

    Having failed twice, he didn't want to try again

    Having been his own boss for such a long time, he found it hard to accept orders from another


    Is 'having + verb3' in the sentence about Nietzsche different than these ?
    Yes and no - All those sentences use 'having + verb 3' to qualify the subject of the sentence, whereas Nietzsche isn't the subject of your historian's sentence; that's the 'no' part.

    But you could rewrite your three sentences using co-ordinating conjunctions or prepositions, with a verb in the past:

    When he had read the instructions, ...
    Since he had failed twice, ...
    As he had been his own...

    And in similar fashion you could rewrite the original quote ;

    "The doctor who carried out the study claims that the universally accepted story that Nietzsche had caught syphilis from prostitutes was concocted after World War II ..."

    b
    Last edited by BobK; 03-Feb-2009 at 15:55. Reason: Typo

  4. Volcano1985's Avatar
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    #7

    Re: Having + Verb3

    Quote Originally Posted by BobK View Post
    And in similar fashion you could rewrite the original quote ;

    "The doctor who carried out the study claims that the universally accepted story that Nietzsche hadcaught syphilis from prostitutes was concocted after World War II ..."

    b
    Thank you.So in a past tense sentence, do 'perfect infinitive and perfect participle' always refer to 'past perfect tense' or when we rewrite this kind of sentences, do we use past perfect tense in rewriting?

  5. BobK's Avatar
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    #8

    Re: Having + Verb3

    Quote Originally Posted by Volcano1985 View Post
    Thank you.So in a past tense sentence, do 'perfect infinitive and perfect participle' always refer to 'past perfect tense' or when we rewrite this kind of sentences, do we use past perfect tense in rewriting?
    I don't really understand the first option, but the second is right anyway - so perhaps it doesn't matter!

    b

  6. Volcano1985's Avatar
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    #9

    Re: Having + Verb3

    Correct me if I am wrong please

    He pretends to have done his homework - He pretends that he did his homework

    He pretended to have done his homework - He pretended that he had done his homework

    I am happy to have seen her - I am happy that I have seen her

    I was happy to have seen her - I was happy that I had seen her

  7. BobK's Avatar
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    #10

    Re: Having + Verb3

    Quote Originally Posted by Volcano1985 View Post
    Correct me if I am wrong please

    He pretends to have done his homework - He pretends that he did his homework

    He pretended to have done his homework - He pretended that he had done his homework

    I am happy to have seen her - I am happy that I have seen her

    I was happy to have seen her - I was happy that I had seen her
    - except (maybe) the first sentence, which would almost always be 'He is pretending...'. But all the 'that' clauses are perfect.

    b

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