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  1. Newbie
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    #1

    Red face problems with word order etc.

    Dear teachers, I was asked to translate a text from german into english and I am stuck now, as I am not sure about the use of some words/phrases (I guess these are problems typical for native german speakers?). I humbly ask if you could have a look at these setences and help me out, please.

    1. "Heye & Partner was founded by the publisher Friedrich W. Heye in 1962."

    (MS Word marks this text as being erroneous. I can't figure out why. If I replace "was founded" with "has been founded" then it seems fine, but why? On google I have seen "was founded" lots of times. By the way, does it matter where and in which order I put the year and a location, i.e. ...was born in 1962 in Berlin or was born in Berlin in 1962 ?)

    2. "M23 became established through poster-, book- and web design in particular."


    (I want to say that the studio m23 got well known through poster-, book and web design. The "in particular" refers to all of these works, but I am not sure whether I should best place it at the beginning of the sentence like "In particular, m23 became..." to convey this meaning.

    3. "Their works are represented in museums and exhibitions worldwide and have been awarded a prize, such as the TDC Award,..., the exceptional prize at biennials in Sofia, Zagreb, Chaumont and Hong Kong numerous times."

    (Maybe "...have been awarded a prize numerous times, such as... " ? I just don't know where to best put "numerous times")

    4. " He studied typography and media publishing at the Academy of Fine Arts in Hamburg with Prof. Hans Andree and Ute Neckar."

    (Is it correct to say that s.b. studied with professor ..., meaning the professor was his teacher and not sombody he went to school with. Also, where should this part best be placed ?)

    I know it's alot of stuff for someone posting for the first time, but I still hope you can help me. Thank you very much in advance. Kind regards Jorg
    Last edited by joerg; 08-Feb-2009 at 14:48.

  2. BobK's Avatar
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    #2

    Re: problems with word order etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by joerg;436420Dear teachers, I was asked to translate a text from german into english and I am stuck now, as I am not sure about the use of some words/phrases (I guess these are problems typical for native german speakers?). I humbly ask if you could have a look at these setences and help me out, please.

    [B
    1. "Heye & Partner was founded by the publisher Friedrich W. Heye in 1962."[/B]

    (MS Word marks this text as being erroneous. I can't figure out why. If I replace "was founded" with "has been founded" then it seems fine, but why? On google I have seen "was founded" lots of times. By the way, does it matter where and in which order I put the year and a location, i.e. ...was born in 1962 in Berlin or was born in Berlin in 1962 ?)
    Don't worry about the grammar checker; MSWord has an unthinking general hatred of passives. 'The publisher Friedrich W. Heye founded Heye & Partner in 1962' would pass muster, but your version is fine.

    2. "M23 became established through poster-, book- and web design in particular."


    (I want to say that the studio m23 got well known through poster-, book and web design. The "in particular" refers to all of these works, but I am not sure whether I should best place it at the beginning of the sentence like "In particular, m23 became..." to convey this meaning.
    Why omit the hyphen especially after the two hanging hyphens? The 'in particular is OK, though it might be interpreted as meaning 'web design more than the other to sorts'. To avoid that, I'd reword: 'M23 became established [when?], and was particularly recognized for its...'.

    3. "Their works are represented in museums and exhibitions worldwide and have been awarded a prize, such as the TDC Award,..., the exceptional prize at biennials in Sofia, Zagreb, Chaumont and Hong Kong numerous times."

    (Maybe "...have been awarded a prize numerous times, such as... " ? I just don't know where to best put "numerous times")
    What does 'have been awarded a prize, such as...' mean. Oh, I see. It would be clearer if you said 'have won many prizes, such as...'.

    I know it's a [two words] lot of stuff for someone posting for the first time, but I still hope you can help me. Thank you very much in advance. Kind regards Jorg

    b

  3. Newbie
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    #3

    Re: problems with word order etc.

    Thank you so much for your quick replay. This really helped me a lot, you guys are great! Could you also have a quick look at my last question, please. Thank you ever so much! Regards Jorg

    4. "
    He studied typography and media publishing at the Academy of Fine Arts in Hamburg with Prof. Hans Andree and Ute Neckar."

    (Is it correct to say that s.b. studied with professor ..., meaning the professor was his teacher and not somebody he went to school with. Also, where should this part best be placed ?)

  4. BobK's Avatar
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    #4

    Re: problems with word order etc.

    'with' is sometimes used (especially for practical studies - 'she went to Paris to study with Nadia Boulanger); but usually, for theoretical studies, you study under someone - or, if it's a more distant relationship 'he studied in the school of..., led by Professor N;

    b

  5. Newbie
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    #5

    Re: problems with word order etc.

    He there,

    its me again. Now i get confused about courses of studies. Could you kindly tell me which of these versions is correct? Are there other ways to express this situation?

    He completed a graphic course of studies.
    He completed a graphic course of study.
    He successfully completed a study in (of) graphic design.
    He graduated from university in graphic ????


    I apologize if this looks confusing, but I am trying to find out about different ways to express that somebody completed certain courses of study at a university, without using the same phrases in each paragraph. I hope you can help me once again. Thank you.

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    #6

    Re: problems with word order etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by joerg View Post
    He there,

    its [it's] me again. Now[,] i get [got] confused about courses of studies. Could you kindly tell me which of these versions is correct? Are there other ways to express this situation?

    He completed a graphic course of studies.
    He completed a course on graphic.
    He completed a graphic course of study.
    He competed studying a course on graphic.
    He successfully completed a study in (of) graphic design.
    He successfully completed a study on graphic design.
    He graduated from university in graphic ????
    He graduated in graphic from the university of....

    I apologize if this [these] looks [look] confusing, but I am trying to find out about different ways to express [the fact] that somebody completed certain courses of study at [from] a university, without using the same phrases in each paragraph. I hope you can help me once again. Thank you.
    Thanks
    Shawnock

  7. Newbie
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    #7

    Re: problems with word order etc.

    Thank you for all your help and the fast responses. I hope I don't keep you too busy, but I am afraid I have to bother you again. I know you are not here to correct whole papers, but I keep stumbling on sentences and phrases which I find kind of awkward when I read them again and google is not a great help. Seeing that you are so quick with your responses and that this must be all childs play for you, I hope you don't mind.

    Are sentences no. 1 and 2 valid ways to express that somebody studied something as well? (similar to the ones from before)
    1. He completed a postgraduate course at the Jan van Eyck Academy Maastrich, Netherlands where the degree of Master of Arts was conferred on him.

    2. He has successfully completed a course of study / study course in graphic design.

    Sentence no. 3 looks odd to me, because it might imply that he only worked at the university Essen from 1995 to 2000. What I want to express is that he worked at both of these institutions from 1995 to 200.
    3. At the same time of working freelance, he also was employed as lecturer for typography at the university of applied science in Düsseldorf and the university Essen from 1995 to 2000.

    4. Since 2000 he has been professor of ... OR Since 2000 he is professor of thypography and editorial design at the department of design of the university of applied science Mainz (I have heard that, if there is something like "since" in your sentence, then one should use "has been" to show this activity is still valid for the present time, but on google I have seen both versions)
    Last edited by joerg; 11-Feb-2009 at 14:38.

  8. BobK's Avatar
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    #8

    Re: problems with word order etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by joerg View Post
    Thank you for all your help and the fast responses. I hope I don't keep you too busy, but I am afraid I have to bother you again. I know you are not here to correct whole papers, but I keep stumbling on sentences and phrases which I find kind of awkward when I read them again and google is not a great help. Seeing that you are so quick with your responses and that this must be all childs play for you, I hope you don't mind.

    Are sentences no. 1 and 2 valid ways to express that somebody studied something as well? (similar to the ones from before)
    1. He completed a postgraduate course at the Jan van Eyck Academy Maastrich, Netherlands where the degree of Master of Arts was conferred on him.

    2. He has successfully completed a course of study / study course in graphic design.

    Sentence no. 3 looks odd to me, because it might imply that he only worked at the university Essen from 1995 to 2000. What I want to express is that he worked at both of these institutions from 1995 to 200.
    3. At the same time of working freelance, he also was employed as lecturer for typography at the university of applied science in Düsseldorf and the university Essen from 1995 to 2000.

    4. Since 2000 he has been professor of ... OR Since 2000 he is professor of thypography and editorial design at the department of design of the university of applied science Mainz (I have heard that, if there is something like "since" in your sentence, then one should use "has been" to show this activity is still valid for the present time, but on google I have seen both versions)
    Please start a new thread for this post. This thread starts to deviate at no. 5.

    Returning to shawnock's reply, the answer presumably applies to Indian English, In Br English, your original suggestions were more nearly acceptable in Br English than those suggestions:

    J: "He completed a graphics course of studies".
    S: "He completed a course on graphic."

    J: "He completed a graphics course of study".
    S: "He competed studying a course on graphic."

    J: "He successfully completed a study in (of) graphic design." ('a study of' is all-encompassing, every aspect of design, a life's work.)
    S: "He successfully completed a study on graphic design."

    J: "He graduated from university in graphics".
    S: "He graduated in graphic from the university of...."


    (I've taken care to use "" rather than "", because I'm correcting your originals only on the basis of what's acceptable in Br English; S's versions obviously work for another set of speakers. )

    b

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    #9

    Re: problems with word order etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by BobK View Post
    Please start a new thread for this post. This thread starts to deviate at no. 5.

    Returning to shawnock's reply, the answer presumably applies to Indian English, In Br English, your original suggestions were more nearly acceptable in Br English than those suggestions:

    J: "He completed a graphics course of studies".
    S: "He completed a course on graphic."

    J: "He completed a graphics course of study".
    S: "He competed studying a course on graphic."

    J: "He successfully completed a study in (of) graphic design." ('a study of' is all-encompassing, every aspect of design, a life's work.)
    S: "He successfully completed a study on graphic design."

    J: "He graduated from university in graphics".
    S: "He graduated in graphic from the university of...."


    (I've taken care to use "" rather than "", because I'm correcting your originals only on the basis of what's acceptable in Br English; S's versions obviously work for another set of speakers. )

    b
    Thanks b for your commnets. The subtleness of the usage in different locations is quite intriguing.

    Request you to share some rules in the differences of usage.

    Thanks
    Shawnock

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    #10

    Re: problems with word order etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawnock View Post
    Thanks b for your commnets. The subtleness of the usage in different locations is quite intriguing.

    Request you to share some rules in the differences of usage.

    Thanks
    Shawnock
    There are far too many for anyone to summarize here; certainly not me, anyway. I don't know the principles, I just know when something doesn't sound British.

    This looks useful, though I'm afraid it doesn't seem to have a web version:
    Indian and British English: A Handbook of Usage.... ;Amazon.co.uk: Paroo Nihalani, R. K. Tongue, Priya Hosali, Jonathan Crowther: Books
    (For what it's worth - not a lot as an academic recommendation - I was a friend and colleague of one of the authors, and what he doesn't know about Br English isn't worth knowing.)

    b

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