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    • Join Date: Feb 2009
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    #1

    Is it all so necessary ?.

    I am not a teacher. ( Obviously. )

    Not wishing to be arguementative, I would ask why it is thought so necessary that pupils need be taught anything other than simple PP&F tenses.?

    Your thoughts would truly be appreciated by an old guy who has gone through life with nothing more than a " basic knowledge "of English, but never having found any difficulty in having myself understood whist using both the spoken and written word.


    • Join Date: Nov 2007
    • Posts: 5,409
    #2

    Re: Is it all so necessary ?.

    I'm not sure what you mean. As I read "PP and F", that's Present Perfect and Future"; which is rather funny since your question, apart from the Present Perfect, is predominantly in the Present tense.

    Can you spell out your thesis a bit more? icon for Intrigued

  1. Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
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    #3

    Re: Is it all so necessary ?.

    Quote Originally Posted by kitosdad View Post
    I am not a teacher. ( Obviously. )

    Not wishing to be arguementative, I would ask why it is thought so necessary that pupils need be taught anything other than simple PP&F tenses.?

    Your thoughts would truly be appreciated by an old guy who has gone through life with nothing more than a " basic knowledge "of English, but never having found any difficulty in having myself understood whist using both the spoken and written word.
    It sounds like you mean past, present, and future.

    There are two reasons to learn other tenses:

    1. To understand.
    2. To be understood.


    • Join Date: Feb 2009
    • Posts: 69
    #4

    Re: Is it all so necessary ?.

    Thanks for your reply. Why should I need anything other than PP&F tenses to :-

    1. understand.
    2. be understood.


    • Join Date: Nov 2007
    • Posts: 5,409
    #5

    Re: Is it all so necessary ?.

    I lived here for 10 years. (past)
    I live here now. (present)

    How long ago was it that he 'lived here'? Was there then a hiatus, where he lived somewhere else, before moving back?
    One can express it all, and obviate any confusion:
    "I've lived here for 10 years."


    • Join Date: Feb 2009
    • Posts: 69
    #6

    Re: Is it all so necessary ?.

    Can you spell out your thesis a bit more?

    Sorry David, that IS my thesis.

    Surely the most important point is that you fully understand what I say, and that I fully understand your reply.

    I cannot appreciate that all of these requirements are not fully covered in the PP&F tenses without adding other labels to tenses .. continuous etc,.


    • Join Date: Feb 2009
    • Posts: 69
    #7

    Re: Is it all so necessary ?.

    "why it is thought so necessary that pupils need be taught anything other than simple PP&F tenses."?

    That's my point .. why do we need all the extra grammar.? PP&F appears to cover it all without the need for anything added.

    I AM NOT A TEACHER AND SEEK CLARITY.


    • Join Date: Feb 2009
    • Posts: 69
    #8

    Re: Is it all so necessary ?.

    MODALS OF CERTAINTY--- DEGREE OF CERTAINTY.

    And THAT thread highlights my concern as well as any words could.

    How, or WHY, should we have a rule governing the % of, is, might, could, may....... is it necessary ?.

    Just WHO makes all of this stuff up ? or better still, You couldn't make this stuff up !. ( Joking of course. )


    • Join Date: Nov 2007
    • Posts: 5,409
    #9

    Re: Is it all so necessary ?.

    that IS my thesis.

    Surely the most important point is that you fully understand what I say, and that I fully understand your reply.

    I cannot appreciate that all of these requirements are not fully covered in the PP&F tenses without adding other labels to tenses .. continuous etc,.


    How then would you explain to someone - particularly an ESL student - the difference between:
    I have a check-up every year
    and
    I am having a check-up next week
    and
    I would have had a check-up but...

    and...and...as we are constantly asked: when and why would a person use one and not the others?

  2. Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
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    • Join Date: Jan 2009
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    #10

    Re: Is it all so necessary ?.

    Quote Originally Posted by kitosdad View Post
    "why it is thought so necessary that pupils need be taught anything other than simple PP&F tenses."?

    That's my point .. why do we need all the extra grammar.? PP&F appears to cover it all without the need for anything added.

    I AM NOT A TEACHER AND SEEK CLARITY.
    It's true that a language doesn't need as many tenses as English has. And there's no good reason for how the language has evolved. Let's just say it was by committee.

    In the U.S., the Modern Language Association (MLA) decides what's right and what's wrong. It's the final arbiter, the Vatican of American English. I don't know who governs British English.

    As for understanding: I think David's point is that the more fluent you are in our tenses, the easier it will be to know what's going on when someone says:

    "I could have been graduating college by now, if only you'd helped me study, as you should have."

    "If it had been me, I'd have told them all that I'd have been coming home last week if it weren't for their constant interference."

    "I would have been going fishing, if my wife hadn't already been planning to stock the freezer with salmon she'll be buying tonight."

    These are thoughts that simple past, present, and future just can't express.

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