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    • Join Date: Apr 2009
    • Posts: 3
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    #1

    Please Help!

    Please help me with the usage of the phrases:
    Not since has/have
    Not until did

    eg:Not since Galileo suffered the scurvy humor of the inquisition has a religious organisation so effectively curbed the ability of a major scientist to pursue......


    Not until the Enlightenment,some 200 years ago ,did society seriously question the right of the state to execute.....


    Is it always that we use 'did' with 'not until' and 'has/have' with 'not since',please help....
    thanks in advance.


    • Join Date: Apr 2009
    • Posts: 3
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    #2

    Re: Please Help!

    Please some teacher out there please help...


    • Join Date: Nov 2007
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    #3

    Re: Please Help!

    Not since Galileo suffered the scurvy humor of the inquisition has a religious organisation so effectively curbed the ability of a major scientist to pursue......

    Look at this depicted visually:
    <...Galileo suffered>|<A....................................>| NOW
    There was a time, up to the day A, when the church curbed scientists in what they could pursue. In all the years since A, right up to NOW, this has not happened again. So - we are looking back (from the NOW when this sentence was written) over that period of time, back to A; and over that period of time, it has not happened again. When we look back over a period of time - from A to NOW - we use the Present Perfect.
    'since' means 'in the intervening period between the time mentioned - (A) - and the time under consideration, typically the present - (NOW)'.

    Not until the Enlightenment,some 200 years ago ,did society seriously question the right of the state to execute.....
    Depicted visually:
    <.....pre-Enlightment years>|E|....Enlightment............200 years...>|NOW
    The Enlightment is depicted as starting at some point in time, E, 200 years ago.

    'until' means 'up to the point in time/ the (beginning of the) event mentioned - E.
    So - 'not until' says, 'not before the point in time E did society question...'
    So, we have time broken into two sections: before E, and after E.
    Before E, 'society did not question...'
    After E, 'society did question'.

    With the use of 'until' we are not concerned with a period of time- we are just concerned with before and after a particular point in time, and here, that point is E, 200 years ago.
    Last edited by David L.; 14-Apr-2009 at 14:49.


    • Join Date: Apr 2009
    • Posts: 3
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    #4

    Re: Please Help!

    Thank you very much Mr.David for enlightening me.I got your point and understood it correctly.I really appreciate your help.Thanks once again.

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