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    #1

    on vs using

    Which one should I say?


    I will present a three-minute lesson on the Linear Process Model.

    I will present a three-minute lesson using Linear Process Model.


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    #2

    Re: on vs using

    Nyree,
    They're both good English sentences, but use only the second one: the first is potentially ambiguous in that the preposition "on" in that sentence can mean either "about" or "by using."


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    #3

    Re: on vs using

    I will present a three-minute lesson on the Linear Process Model.
    You will be explaining the Linear Process Model.

    I will present a three-minute lesson using (the) Linear Process Model.

    This sounds like: the way you will teach/present this lesson (on some subject or other), will be along the procedural lines/in the way that the Linear Process Model dictates is the way to teach this subject.

  1. konungursvia's Avatar
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    #4

    Re: on vs using

    I agree with David. The Yank got it slightly wrong there.

  2. engee30's Avatar
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    #5

    Cool Re: on vs using

    Quote Originally Posted by konungursvia View Post
    I agree with David. The Yank got it slightly wrong there.
    I don't think so, konungursvia. Just like gabber points this out, on can also mean using a particular type of machine or equipment. So on in the first example is quite ambiguous to my mind, meaning either about or by using.


  3. konungursvia's Avatar
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    #6

    Re: on vs using

    No, he can't tell the OP not to use the first sentence, because a) it exists and is correct and b) it may be the actual situation reflects just that, rather than b. In fact, if the topic is the Linear Process Model, I feel the first is the better sentence. It may be an error to tell the OP it should not be used.


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    #7

    Re: on vs using

    When the desire is to find a way to disagree and rubbish another member of this forum...

    Yes, engee: on can also mean using a particular type of machine or equipment.

    But don't let the context, and ignorance of Kember's 1989 Linear-Process Model*, and how this has been utilized since in other settings, stop you from doing your usual.

    *Kember, D. 1989, 'An illustration, with case studies, of a linear-process model of drop-out from distance education',
    Last edited by David L.; 13-May-2009 at 06:57.

  4. engee30's Avatar
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    #8

    Cool Re: on vs using

    Quote Originally Posted by konungursvia View Post
    No, he can't tell the OP not to use the first sentence, because a) it exists and is correct and b) it may be the actual situation reflects just that, rather than b. In fact, if the topic is the Linear Process Model, I feel the first is the better sentence. It may be an error to tell the OP it should not be used.
    There's something I don't get.
    I've been a member of this English forum for a while, and seen a lot of posts with ambiguous questions. Or rather, questions posed because of the ambiguity of the statements, to which the asker is trying to get answers.
    Many a time there's been a native English teacher of English commenting on such statements and going like 'it's hard to understand what the author of that sentence meant' or 'the sentence is ambiguous, and the writer should have put it in a different way', or 'the author should have written/said this instead of that' and the like.
    So, gabber actually did what was best for the poster - dispelled any doubts as to the better choice between on and using, so that the poster was sure that his/her statement is not much too ambiguous, or as is in this case, not ambiguous at all.
    There was nothing wrong about it, and no point in agreeing with David L., who seems to be a real troublemaker, by the way.


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    #9

    Re: on vs using

    dispelled any doubts as to the better choice between on and using, so that the poster was sure that his/her statement is not much too ambiguous, or as is in this case, not ambiguous at all.

    Is using one's discretion, and giving MsNyree credit for some intelligence in knowing what she's talking about and doing if she's employing the Linear-Process Model - not exactly your beginner-learner of English if I am responding to a native speaker in Atlanta - is it cause for such a condemnation of me as 'trouble-maker'?
    I added to gabber's post by giving more detail about the difference under discussion.

    Oh, not you. Not you. You seize the opportunity to pounce on konungursvia, and then attack me, ignoring the context presented, and still apparently ignorant of, or choosing to ignore the reality of, the model under discussion.
    Who's the arrogant, belligerent one?

    MsNyree: I hope that your query has been satisfactorily answered; and the pathetic squabbling that has erupted as an adjunct to your post does not deter you.
    Last edited by David L.; 13-May-2009 at 11:05.

  5. konungursvia's Avatar
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    #10

    Re: on vs using

    Quote Originally Posted by MsNyree View Post
    Which one should I say?


    I will present a three-minute lesson on the Linear Process Model.

    I will present a three-minute lesson using Linear Process Model.
    Some people have been in error in their initial heuristic reading of the two proposed sentences. The first is grammatically perfect, and represents a very common and correct usage, which I find clear.

    The second is erroneous, except in India, as there is no definite article (as David very tactfully pointed out) for the noun model.

    As the Linear-Process Model is a conceptual model, not a physical machine, it is referred to in sentence 1 as a topic, rather than a medium of expression. So, sentence 1 is perfect.

    Sentence 2 is itself ambiguous, even if corrected: one is left in doubt as to whether the main topic of the lesson is the Linear Process Model, or if indeed that is merely something that is worthy of mention because it appears at all in the lesson. It could be, for instance, that the lesson is on the economic impact of secondary school drop-outs, and the Linear-Process Model is just one of a dozen features of the lesson. Or, it could be that the entire lesson will utilise the Linear-Process Model, throughout the three minutes... which then raises the question of whether the Linear Process Model is just an incredibly useful means of explaining something else, or whether it is intended as the main focus of the lesson.

    I think it boils down to the fact that reading on screen, when done quickly, can lead us to the occasional jumping of the gun.

    Thanks to all for their help and contributions, no hard feelings.

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