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    #1

    sentense structure

    Dear Teacher,

    following a quote from a business interview which the sales manager is being asked about the required abilities from a salesmans:

    "I think the people concerned would have to be independent...

    my question:
    1.0 does the word concerned is being used as past participle or is it adjective ?

    2.0 what is the tense of the phrase would have to be independent

    3.0 what is the write way to write about an updated schedule of customer order:

    1.0 the order will be ship on...

    2.0 the order is planned to be shipped on...

    can I use twice passive in one sentence as example 2.0 ?

    waiting for you kind advice,

    Rinot


  1. Monticello's Avatar
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    #2

    Re: sentense structure

    Hi rinotg,

    Quote Originally Posted by rinotg
    "I think the people concerned would have to be independent...
    My questions are:

    1.0 does Is the word concerned is being used as past participle or is it an adjective? - an adjective.

    2.0 What is the tense of the phrase would have to be independent?

    The verb phrase "would have to be ..." is present conditional: The main verb phrase here is "would ... be"; splitting this main verb phrase are the additional words "have to," which here mean "by necessity." In other words: "I think the people concerned would, by necessity, be independent ... " (based upon the conditional criteria as to why "the people" are "concerned," i.e., interested).

    3.0 What is the write right way to write about an updated schedule of a customer order? :

    1.0 The order will be shipped on...

    2.0 The order is planned scheduled to be shipped on...

    Can I use twice passive in one sentence as example 2.0 ?
    Yes, it's fine.
    Last edited by Monticello; 03-Jun-2009 at 02:33.


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    #3

    Re: sentense structure

    Quote Originally Posted by Monticello View Post
    Hi rinotg,



    My questions are:

    1.0 does Is the word concerned is being used as past participle or is it an adjective? - an adjective.

    2.0 What is the tense of the phrase would have to be independent?

    The verb phrase "would have to be ..." is present conditional: The main verb phrase here is "would ... be"; splitting this main verb phrase are the additional words "have to," which here mean "by necessity." In other words: "I think the people concerned would, by necessity, be independent ... " (based upon the conditional criteria as to why "the people" are "concerned," i.e., interested).

    3.0 What is the write right way to write about an updated schedule of a customer order? :

    1.0 The order will be shipped on...

    2.0 The order is planned scheduled to be shipped on...

    Can I use twice passive in one sentence as example 2.0 ?
    Yes, it's fine.
    Thank you for correcting my spelling (please do it now) ,I appreciate it.

    As for the phrase "would have to be ..." you remarked that it is present conditional but I think that every conditional phrase should start with " "if" then ..."" here the sales manager says that a good salesman should be independent, with a communication skil etc. so I think it is more modal "would" or she could also use the modal "should" but offcourse I'm not sure about it.
    also you I am confused about the use of the verb "be" in a sentense, for example you correct me by adding "ed" to ship and turned it to a passive phrase "will be shipped" but we offen use noun after be like "would be independent" which uses noun after the verb be. can you simplify this issue.

    Thanks!!!

    Rinot.

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    #4

    Re: sentense structure

    Quote Originally Posted by rinotg View Post
    Thank you for correcting my spelling (please do it now) ,I appreciate it.

    As for the phrase "would have to be ..." you remarked that it is present conditional but I think that every conditional phrase should start with " "if" then ..."" here the sales manager says that a good salesman should be independent, with a communication skil etc. so I think it is more modal "would" or she could also use the modal "should" but offcourse I'm not sure about it.
    A conditional sentence normally (not always) starts with "if", but conditional form (of a verb) is another matter. In fact the verb in the protasis (the "if" part) of a conditional sentence is not conditional. The conditional form is used, if appropriate, in the other part (the apodosis or "then" part).

    Here the sense is that if the person were appointed, he would have to have the specified properties. The modal force (the idea of obligation) is conveyed here by the "have to". Because modal verbs such as "must" do not have infinitives, their infinitive is supplied periphrastically by constructions such as "(to) have to". So the conditional form of "must" is "would have to". You are right that "should" could also be used here, with a slight difference in sense.

    also you I am confused about the use of the verb "be" in a sentense, for example you correct me by adding "ed" to ship and turned it to a passive phrase "will be shipped" but we offen use noun after be like "would be independent" which uses noun after the verb be. can you simplify this issue.

    Thanks!!!

    Rinot.
    The expression you need here is the passive of the transitive verb "ship" (they will ship the goods). You could also use the construction "the goods will ship (on Tuesday)", but without the verb "be". (This is still the transitive verb "ship", this time in what is sometimes called a "middle" construction.) There is no construction here using "ship" as a noun with the copula, which is what you seem to be trying to do.

    Hope this helps.


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    #5

    Cool Re: sentense structure

    Quote Originally Posted by orangutan View Post
    A conditional sentence normally (not always) starts with "if", but conditional form (of a verb) is another matter. In fact the verb in the protasis (the "if" part) of a conditional sentence is not conditional. The conditional form is used, if appropriate, in the other part (the apodosis or "then" part).

    Here the sense is that if the person were appointed, he would have to have the specified properties. The modal force (the idea of obligation) is conveyed here by the "have to". Because modal verbs such as "must" do not have infinitives, their infinitive is supplied periphrastically by constructions such as "(to) have to". So the conditional form of "must" is "would have to". You are right that "should" could also be used here, with a slight difference in sense.



    The expression you need here is the passive of the transitive verb "ship" (they will ship the goods). You could also use the construction "the goods will ship (on Tuesday)", but without the verb "be". (This is still the transitive verb "ship", this time in what is sometimes called a "middle" construction.) There is no construction here using "ship" as a noun with the copula, which is what you seem to be trying to do.

    Hope this helps.


    Dear Sir,

    I hope I'm not disturbing you to much ,.

    I found the full question and the answer from the inerview.

    Question :" Finally, what sort of characteristics do you think are essential in a successful international salesperson?

    Answer :"They have to be able to communicate and have an ability to get on with people.I think the people concerned would have to be independent, be able too make their own decition...."

    do you still think that the word concerned is an adjective and not past participle ?and if it is adjective it should describe the noun people and from my point of view it should be located before the noun and not afterat least that what what I have learned.

    can you recomend to me how to write with a minimal gammer mistakes maybe you have agood book or website.

    please advice,

    Rinot

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    #6

    Re: sentense structure

    Quote Originally Posted by rinotg View Post





    Answer :"They have to be able to communicate and have an ability to get on with people.I think the people concerned would have to be independent, be able too make their own decition...."

    do you still think that the word concerned is an adjective and not past participle ?and if it is adjective it should describe the noun people and from my point of view it should be located before the noun and not afterat least that what what I have learned.
    I never said anything about "concerned" being an adjective (or not) . I was addressing your other questions.

    I'm afraid I don't know any short cuts to writing grammatical English.

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    #7

    Re: sentense structure

    Quote Originally Posted by rinotg View Post
    1.0 does the word concerned is being used as past participle or is it adjective ?
    Just a quibble about terminology; I think the opposition is not between participle and adjective (the two are not disjoint), but between adjectival participle (a participle used as an adjective) and verbal participle (a participle which forms part of a verbal paradigm, in this case the passive voice).

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