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    • Join Date: Apr 2009
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    #1

    there

    Hi everybody,

    do you say "In Munich (there) is a huge market where you can buy many things." with or without "there"?

    Thanks

  1. bhaisahab's Avatar
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    #2

    Re: there

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
    Hi everybody,

    do you say "In Munich (there) is a huge market where you can buy many things." with or without "there"?

    Thanks
    It is ok with or without there.

  2. Raymott's Avatar
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    #3

    Re: there

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
    Hi everybody,

    do you say "In Munich (there) is a huge market where you can buy many things." with or without "there"?

    Thanks
    You have to use "there".

  3. bhaisahab's Avatar
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    #4

    Re: there

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymott View Post
    You have to use "there".
    Why?

  4. Raymott's Avatar
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    #5

    Re: there

    Quote Originally Posted by bhaisahab View Post
    Why?
    I think primarily because such constructions as "In Munich is a huge market" sound distinctly non-native.
    I agree that "there" is not needed grammatically, but Sunshine is asking "what do you say?"
    I would never say:
    In Paris is a tall tower called the Eiffel Tower.
    In Tokyo are many Japanese people.
    They don't sound conversational. If I had to choose to tell someone:
    A cat is in my room; In my room is a cat; There is a cat in my room, I would always say the latter in ordinary speech (even though the others aren't wrong).
    So, I'll withdraw the "You have to use "there", and say "If you want to sound like a native speaker having a normal conversation, you should use "there".
    Better?


    • Join Date: Jul 2006
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    #6

    Re: there

    Quote Originally Posted by bhaisahab View Post
    It is ok with or without there.
    Agreed. In the sentence, the adverb of place realizes the surface subject.

  5. Raymott's Avatar
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    #7

    Re: there

    Quote Originally Posted by svartnik View Post
    Agreed. In the sentence, the adverb of place realizes the surface subject.
    Yes, but we're talking about discourse not syntax.


    • Join Date: Jul 2006
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    #8

    Re: there

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymott View Post
    I think primarily because such constructions as "In Munich is a huge market" sound distinctly non-native.
    Why still are pedagogical grammar books full of such constructions?

  6. Raymott's Avatar
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    #9

    Re: there

    Quote Originally Posted by svartnik View Post
    Why still are pedagogical grammar books full of such constructions?
    Is that a trick question? They are written by pedagogical grammarians! Their function is to lay down the possible structures in a language.
    There's a big difference between what is grammatically possible in a language, and what is a commonly used form in conversation. Grammar books rarely pretend to be guides to natural communication.
    Only the OP knows whether she wants to become a grammarian, or merely wishes to speak like a native would.
    Last edited by Raymott; 01-Jul-2009 at 21:02.


    • Join Date: Nov 2007
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    #10

    Re: there

    do you say "In Munich (there) is a huge market where you can buy many things." with or without "there"?

    One example of the most colloquial way of saying this is:

    "In Munich, there's this huge market where you can buy just about everything."
    'just about everything' in this sentence is understood to mean, not exactly 'everything', but 'a hell of a lot of different stuff'.

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