Advice on learning Spanish

[Tomasz Klimkiewicz]

Greetings to all,

I would like to take this opportunity to ask the native speakers of Spanish (I've noticed there are quite a few here) regarding studying of their beautiful language.

I'm Polish and the only foreign language I know is English. Many years ago I studied Russian and am still able to read the alphabet and figure out the meaning, but my speaking skills are next to none.

I have been considering taking up another language, perhaps Spanish, simply because I like the sound of it.

Now, my question is, how would you, being native speakers, characterise the inherent difficulties of your mother tongue? Is the grammar difficult to absorb as compared to English? How about the pronunciation? What kind of problems should I expect as a beginner?

When I'm asked similar questions about Polish by foreigners who wish to learn it, I always say it's a horribly difficult language, with lots of grammatical inconsistencies, exceptions, unexplainable rules etc.; moreover, the pronunciation typically gives a headache to all novices, especially those of Anglo-Saxon origin. Thus discouraged, they usually decide to take a course in Polish anyway, and succeed in quickly acquiring communication skills far beyond the 'survival Polish' limits, to my great amazement. :wink:

Perhaps I should add that I'm not a teenager, and one's linguistic abilities deteriorate with age, I've been told by some wise men.

Well, what do you, native speakers of Spanish or experienced students, think?

Thanks in advance. Regards,

 

[Nahualli]

First of all congratulations on deciding to learn Spanish. Nice choice.

What I have to say may not be totally applicable since you mentioned you only speak Polish. I have no basis of comparison, however you mentioned you know some Russian which is what we have in common. If you can relate what I say to Russian and then to Polish, you should be able to follow me. I hope this isn't too verbose. I have to tell you, Spanish and Russian have almost nothing in common at face value but the few things they do have in common are quite, quite useful.

-- First of all, the pronunciation. English speakers specifically have a problem pronouncing certain letters. R is probably the most glaring obstacle but other lesser letters like T and P come to mind as well. English speakers, Americans specifically, have a habit of "rounding" out their letters.

The R is probably the most problematic. There are 2 R's in Spanish, what I like to call the trill and the half-trill. The "rr" is universally recognized as the "rr" in "carro" and "perro". Then there's the half-trill that's just more of a sharp, cut-off "d" sound as in "caro" and "pero". In Russian, words like "работать" carries more of the full trill while "ьрач" carries more of the half-trill. If you remember these sounds you have one of Spanish's most difficult concepts, licked The same thing applies to Anglicized "T" and "P". We say "tee" and "pee" wheras in Russian and in Spanish it's "teh" and "peh". Americans tend to say "tay" and "pay" as a result which makes the entire word sound weird. Stick to your Eastern European pronunciation rules when dealing with Spanish. The syntax may be worlds apart but in my opinion, Spanish pronunciation is closer to Russian than English will ever be.

-- Spanish is spoken all over the map. Keep in mind that most language courses are going to teach you "true" Spanish or European Spanish. I personally speak Mexican Spanish, usually considered the lowest of the low class of Spanish, but I don't mind much Different elements are employed in different Spanish speaking (Spanophone???) countries and regions. "Vosotros" is never used in Mexican Spanish, and only half used in South American Spanish as "Vos" (mostly Chile and Argentina). I could go on and on about the syntactical and pronunciation differences of all the different dialects but I don't think I know even half of them. Suffice it to say that you're going to have about 12 different dialects to choose from but most of the time studying in school you will be learning European Spanish.

-- Finally, stay away from books that claim to teach organic, colloquial or "real Spanish the way REAL Mexicans speak it!!". These are a crap shoot at best and a detriment at worst. Just stick to the language course of your choosing and branch out from there. You cannot learn colloquial from a book. You pick that up as you talk to other native speakers of the language and by reading extended material.

Good luck on your studies. Please drop me a line if I can be of any assistance at all.

-Nah-

 

[Nahualli]

Perhaps I should add that I'm not a teenager, and one's linguistic abilities deteriorate with age, I've been told by some wise men.

Not to harp on anyone but this sentiment is one of the most annoying to listen to. Yes it's true that perhaps a child's ability is greater the younger they are but I believe it to be more based on the fact that a child has very few inherent inhibitions. As people get older they naturally become more jaded, more set in their ways and more convinced it's too late to learn anything new. This above any cognizant ability or inability is what is, to me, the biggest reason why adult language courses are so few and far between. Everyone just assumes that they no longer have the capacity to learn.

3 things you are NEVER too old to learn : How to ride a bike, How to swim, how to speak another language.

Don't listen to all wise men all the time Just apply yourself and you'll be amazed at what you can learn if you really want to

-Nah-

 

[Tomasz Klimkiewicz]

Hello Nahualli,

First of all, thank you very much for your introduction to the Spanish language and its main features. What you wrote is both interesting and informative; actually I have printed out your posts to have the text ready at hand whenever I would like to revert to it.

Yeah, I've heard about the many dialects or varieties of Spanish, as spoken in different countries. A quick reconnaissance that I've conducted indicates that the Spanish courses available here in Warsaw teach the so-called standard Spanish, and that there are very few native speakers working as teachers.

Judging from the way you express yourself I gather you must have had a top-grade English education. Do you live in Mexico? The world has become smaller in terms of the ease of communication, thanks to the net, but on the map it's so far away from where I live...(sigh). Also your general linguistic knowledge is quite impressive, and the fact that you speak Russian gave me a bit of a shock.

In my original post I forgot to mention that in grammar school I had taken a course in classical Latin. This should help me with Spanish vocabulary, right? When I look at a printed text in Spanish many words look familiar.

Thanks again, and all the best,

 

[Francois]

What do you do for a living Nahualli?

FRC

 

[Masfer]

reply

I would like to take this opportunity to ask the native speakers of Spanish (I've noticed there are quite a few here) regarding studying of their beautiful language.

I'm glad that you chose Spanish. I'm willing to help you. Please feel free to ask any question you may have :hi:

how would you, being native speakers, characterise the inherent difficulties of your mother tongue? Is the grammar difficult to absorb as compared to English? How about the pronunciation? What kind of problems should I expect as a beginner?

I don't think Spanish is specially difficult. Compared to English, Spanish grammar is more complex but I think you can learn the basics quite easily. I have to admit that verb tenses in Spanish are difficult to use because we have a lot, but apart from this, the pronunciation, for example, is not very difficult. Non-native speakers of Spanish tend to have problems in pronouncing "rr" and "j". We "say what we write" (we pronounce every single letter we write), and there's only one way to pronounce a word. As you can see, pronunciation will not be a problem

Keep in mind that most language courses are going to teach you "true" Spanish or European Spanish.

Well, experts name "true"/European Spanish Castellano (Castilian), so we have Castellano in Spain and American Spanish (Español de América) in South/Central America. Anyway, there are some small differences depending on the country.

I personally speak Mexican Spanish, usually considered the lowest of the low class of Spanish, but I don't mind much

Where have you heard that ? :shock: That's the first time I heard that Mexican Spanish is considered a low class of Spanish. At least in Spain I have never heard that, and of course, I totally disagree.
By the way, I love Argentinian accent

In my original post I forgot to mention that in grammar school I had taken a course in classical Latin. This should help me with Spanish vocabulary, right? When I look at a printed text in Spanish many words look familiar.

Latin will be very useful since we have a lot of Latin words, and so have French, Italian, Portuguese, ...

¡Buena suerte!
(Good luck!)

 

[Tomasz Klimkiewicz]

Masfer,

Many thanks for a great reply and lots of encouragement.

I've always thought that, as regards the number of grammatical tenses, English is absolutely unbeatable. But OK, we'll see.

Finally, one more question. Do you think your language is suitable for self-study, assuming I will be using a multimedial course with word pronunciation and dialogues recorded, or would you rather recommend a regular course with a teacher even if he/she will not be a native speaker?

Best wishes and regards

 

[Nahualli]

What do you do for a living Nahualli?

FRC

I work in a forgettable IT job

I studied linguistics in college while I was at UC Berkeley. It's the only thing that really fascinates and interests me. Since my job has zero need for other languages I study what I can in my spare time. Currently I'm taking that Russian class at city college in SF in the mornings. It's great.

Tomasz : I'm not native of Mexico. I was born and raised in L.A. in a Spanish speaking household. I learned English as I went through school.


Masfer : It's just been my perception of how other Spanish speakers perceive Español a lo Mexicano. I don't really think of it as a bad thing at all, it's all about placement, usage and perception.

Take Haitian French for instance. Certainly it's the same language (technically) as Parisian French but from the point of view of the language's origin or "home" (Paris), the language in the outlying Francophone countries takes the appearance of being rough around the edges. Certainly Haitian French is a perfectly acceptable language in its own right, my comment about Mexican Spanish was simply a half-jest from the point of view of someone who is a native speaker of Castellano.

-Nah-

 

[Nahualli]

Masfer,

Many thanks for a great reply and lots of encouragement.

I've always thought that, as regards the number of grammatical tenses, English is absolutely unbeatable. But OK, we'll see.

Finally, one more question. Do you think your language is suitable for self-study, assuming I will be using a multimedial course with word pronunciation and dialogues recorded, or would you rather recommend a regular course with a teacher even if he/she will not be a native speaker?

Best wishes and regards

It depends on how much time you're willing to commit to it. My recommendation would be to simply take a class with a curriculum and an instructor. Even if they aren't native speakers, most schools don't allow just any random joe to take over a language class. Chances are very good that your instructor will know what they are doing. Note : I am not talking about private language learning companies. I'm talking about community colleges and universities/vocational training.

If you do not have the time to attend a language class (they are usually full credit 4-5 unit classes) then I would suggest you pick out a language kit. DO NOT rely on just one. I will explain a bit more about this.

When I was leaning Russian I didn't have the time (I thought) to sign up to take a class. I picked up a book with a CD-ROM, DVD and printed manual. I went through the first 3 weeks of my "trainng" learning off the media. Boy... was I in for a shock when I finally felt I had hit a brick wall and decided to make time to sign up for a class.

About 90% of what I learned in my book was wrong. Not just "kinda" wrong... dead wrong. Pardon my french, but how in the blue hell do you expect to learn to speak Russian without teaching the concept of the miyakhy znak? That's like half the language and yet this language "kit" didn't feel it important enought to expand on that concept other than to say "just add a y sound whenever you see a soft sign". Yeah.... right!

If you choose to go the language kit route, I suggest making a new friend who is a native speaker. It doesn't even have to be a local friend. Just go on an internet messageboard (like this one) and start writing. Someone will eventually write back. A native speaker is a nice complement to self-study. They can fill in where the kit leaves off, in the absence of an instructor.

If you are having issues with making new friends or are shy, then my final suggestion would be to pick out a second language kit altho don't pick an entire kit. Focus on one aspect, for instance, if you have a language kit with a DVD or CD-ROM and exercise book, look for a book on Spanish Vocabulary or Spanish Grammar, in fact I can recommend a couple. The idea here is that you are applying what you're learning in your "main" book, in a slightly different way in your "secondary" book. Don't do exercises at the same time from both books. I would recommend working through one unit in the main text one week, then taking a break and doing some exercises in the secondary text that correspond to the main text the following week. If there's something in the second text that the main text hasn't covered, don't be afraid to skip it.

The idea here is that you're not bombarding yourself with two different systems, you're only taking some work from system 1 and applying it in system 2. You can take the material you skipped in system 2 and when you do get around to making a native speaking friend, you can ask them about it, etc.

You always have us here

-Nah-

 

[Nahualli]

Masfer,

Many thanks for a great reply and lots of encouragement.

I've always thought that, as regards the number of grammatical tenses, English is absolutely unbeatable. But OK, we'll see.

I think in terms of numbers, English and Spanish have the same raw number of tenses (7 simple, 7 complex) the other tenses are so obscure or archaic there is no point in learning them for conversational purposes. And let's be practical. You'll use only 5 tenses 98% of the time. Present, Past, Future, Conditional and Subjunctive.

However, things like gerunds are not used in Spanish in the same form. English has actual gerunds, Spanish simply uses the infinitive in its place most of the time. However many Spanish verbs have a reflexive form of the same verb and while the conjugation is extremely simple on these, it still bears mentioning that bulkwise you're looking at a lot more verbs to describe simple actions that in English are largely ignored or simplified. There is a difference betweeen lavar vs. lavarse; two different verbs even though they look like the same thing.

Gosh.. so much to talk about, please do drop me a line if you have any questions.

-Nah-

 

[Alc112]

Spanish is one of the most difficult modern languages:
The verb is always conjugated. One verb has mora than 100 conjugations.
It has two genders.
More personal pronouns but really easy
The stresses: á, é, í, ó, ú
The pronunciations is always the same, you pronounce, for example, la always in the same way.
It has much grammar

 

[Francois]

It's not more difficult than French or Italian.
French is my mother tongue, I've taken up Italian last year (and enjoy it), and this year I've had to brush up on my Spanish as I went to Barcelona and Valencia for vacation. Couldn't help learning some catalan too ;-)
Well, these languages are pretty similar -- latin, that is.

FRC

 

[rappiolla]

Hi Tomasz!

I'm going to give you a few tips. I'm a native Spanish speaker. My first language is Catalan, but Spanish is co-official in Catalonia and I learned it at school at an early age.

One reason for answering your post is I've studied French, German and Russian as well -though I did so on my own and just learned the basics. Also I'm somewhat familiar with Italian and have tried to learn some Dutch on my own. This means I have a basis for comparison among words amd sounds from a number of languages.

Forgive me if I am repeating part of what has already been posted, but I just didn't feel like reading all the stuff above.

First of all, I think the grammar is far more difficult than that of English. Althoguh there aren't declensions as in Latin and Finnish to mention but 2 of the most scary languages in this respect (scarier than Russian I'd say), verbs are quite difficult to learn. The number of tenses is large, the subjunctive mood is widely used and taking a short cut by using the indicative mood is completely wrong (though you would be understood). Unlike in English, for each tense you have a different word for each pronoun. Example: in English you say "I/you/we/they carry, he/she/it carries", just 2 words. In Spanish you'd say "yo llevo, tu llevas, el/ella/ello lleva, nosotros llevamos, vosotros llevais, ellos llevan. And this is a regular verb!

Well, I could write a lot more but I think it's going to be tough to read that much. I'll post more comments soon. Just don't hesitate to ask me more (specific) questions if you like.

Regards from Barcelona.

 

[rappiolla]

A few tips about the sounds and pronounciation.

There are only 5 vowels in Spanish, i.e., the 5 symbols a-e-i-o-u have only ONE sound each. This may make it easier to understand -identify- single words and a bit more difficult to hit the correct pronounciation if you speak a language based on more vowel sounds. Then there are lots of words ending with "o" or "a" and this is often what makes the difference between gender (o=male, a=female).

Consonants are more or less the same as in English, except the rr that has already been mentioned. Then there is no sound like the English "sh" or "j" as in "jelly". h is mute (except for a few locations where they utter it as an aspirated sound). Then there is the sound of c before e or i, which is the same as that of z: very similar to the English "th" in "thief".

In Spanish there are 2 sounds alien to most European languages: one is written as ll (double-l), the other is a n with a wavy bar on top (it's "ñ", though it probably won't render correctly in your computer with regional settings other than Spanish). These 2 sounds are to be found in Portuguese and Italian as well where they are written lh/nh and gl/gn respectively. Also they are present in some slavic languages, as Serbo-Croatian and Russian (I'm not sure about Polish). In Serbo-Croatian ther are represented as lj and nj.