Although or However?

A

Anonymous

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tdol said:

Synonyns in this position:

They still bought it, although, it was expensive.
They still bought it, however, it was expensive.

Synonyns in this position:

It was expensive. They still bought it, (al)though.
It was expensive. They still bought it, however.

Although it was expensive, they still bought it.
However it was expensive, they still bought it. ungrammy

Why :?:
Math :!:

Within a given sentence, the word 'although' can modify A or B

[although A] + B
A + [B although]

Within a given sentence, the word 'however' can modify B
A + [however + B]
A + [B however]

Hypothesis: Both 'although' and 'however' function as conjunctions, but 'however' functions in a way similar to that of a pronoun: it needs a referent. Placing 'however' before its referent produces a result kind of like:

? He's the guy I told you about, John. semantics :?:

wherein the intended meaning is 'He' and 'John' are the same person (co-referent), but the order of the pronouns tells us that 'He' and 'John' are not the same person. The reason being that pronouns need their referents to come before them, so as they have something to anchor to, to refer to.

In that 'He' to refer to 'John', we need to place 'John' before
'He':

John Smith is his name. He's the guy I told you about.

It's that kind of distribution, I believe, that makes 'however' similar to a pronoun. That is, "However it was expensive, they still bought it" is ungrammy 'cause 'however' needs to come after A and before B:

A + [however + B] (wherein "A" is a referential sentence)

It's the order, not the semantics, per se, that's important.

In short, 'however' needs a referent. 'although' doesn't.
 
A

Anonymous

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I dunno why it posted me as 'guest'.

There's a typo:

synonyns [sic] should read as synonyms. Is that right? It's like 4 am here and me eyes are falling out.

By the way, since I be a guest, could I get some extra hand towels :D

Cas
 

RonBee

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Yes, it should be synonyms. Also, I don't think you can use altogether and however synonymously.

:)
 

Tdol

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Synonyns in this position:

They still bought it, although, it was expensive.
They still bought it, however, it was expensive.

They're not synonymous here to me. The second doesn't work, IMO, and I'd delete the second comma in the first.

Synonyns in this position:

It was expensive. They still bought it, (al)though.
It was expensive. They still bought it, however.

These wok, although I'd say that 'though' is the form to use in the first. ;-)
 

RonBee

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tdol said:
Synonyns in this position:

They still bought it, although, it was expensive.
They still bought it, however, it was expensive.

They're not synonymous here to me. The second doesn't work, IMO, and I'd delete the second comma in the first.

Synonyns in this position:

It was expensive. They still bought it, (al)though.
It was expensive. They still bought it, however.

These work, although I'd say that 'though' is the form to use in the first. ;-)

That's what I would have said, but I was too lazy.

:wink:
 

Tdol

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Mad-ox

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however is always isoleted by a comma.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Mariner

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however is always isoleted by a comma.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not true. Consider the sentence:

However expensive, they still bought it.

"You can use however before an adjective or adverb to emphasize that the degree or extend of something cannot change a situation" (Cobuild)

E.g. However hard she tried, nothing seemed to work


In these cases, no comma is required; actually, you can't use a comma.
*However, hard she tried, nothing seemed to work
 

victor su

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My teacher told us the difference between these two words when I was in junior 2. We focused too much on grammar.
 

Epica

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Yes its expensive and cheap and ugly etc so here we use however . idont need it

but

Yes its expensive and cheap and ugly etc so here we use althought . i need it

its true or false ? :roll:
 

Wuisi

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When use as a discourse marker (to help you organise your ideas and set logical relations between them in the discourse) 'however' establishes a contrast, but not between ideas within the same sentence but between ideas in different sentences (adjoining sentences or paragraphs). Although expresses 'concession', and it is a conjunction.
 

soutter

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They bought it, although it was expensive.
Although it was expensive, they still bought it.

(Still is superfluous)

They bought it; however, it was expensive.

However is not a conjunction but an adverb; therefore (that acts like however) a new clause should start.

Although and though are conjunctions; therefore they can join sentences together but do not blindly put commas everywhere.
 

soutter

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Surely however, the however in however hard she tried, nothing seemed to work is different from he was born in Paris; however, he is not French?

The however in however hard she tried, has a different function and hence a different meaning to my however for the former is synoymous with the phrase
no matter how hard she tried ...
 

syku

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I agree, but the usage seems unusual? "However (it was) expensive, they still bought it". They bought it no matter how expensive it was.
 

ratóncolorao

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Ilva you may check it up in a dictionary:
Although:
- despite the fact : she walked home by herself, although she knew that it was dangerous
- but : She'll be coming tonight, although I don't know exactly when.

In Spanish we say aunque :roll:

 
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