beneath/underneath

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blacknomi

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I'm confused with these prepositions:


I lie under a stary night.
I lie underneath the skyline.

There are caves under the bround.
There are caves underneath the ground.
There are caves beneath the ground. (this is wrong)


Is there any possible rules I can use to explain to students?



sabrina
 

MikeNewYork

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blacknomi said:
I'm confused with these prepositions:


I lie under a stary night.
I lie underneath the skyline.

There are caves under the bround.
There are caves underneath the ground.
There are caves beneath the ground. (this is wrong)


Is there any possible rules I can use to explain to students?[/quiote]

The prepositions "beneath", "underneath", and "under" are synonyms. In most cases, they can be used interchangeably. There are some idioms and pat phrases that do not allow substitutions, however. If there are any differences, they would be mostly with the "unders", IMO. I wouldn't use "under" or "underneath" unless what was I was "under (neath)" was actually over me. I would use "beneath" (or below) for things that are higher than I, but not directly over me. For example, I could walk "beneath" the trees without having tree limbs directly over my head. But I would only use "under" and "underneat" if the tree limbs were actually over my position.

One can't lie under a night of any kind. It is also not idiomatic to lie under a skyline.

All three of your cave examples work for me. :wink:
 
S

Susie Smith

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MikeNewYork said:
blacknomi said:
I'm confused with these prepositions:


I lie under a stary night.
I lie underneath the skyline.

There are caves under the bround.
There are caves underneath the ground.
There are caves beneath the ground. (this is wrong)


Is there any possible rules I can use to explain to students?[/quiote]

The prepositions "beneath", "underneath", and "under" are synonyms. In most cases, they can be used interchangeably. There are some idioms and pat phrases that do not allow substitutions, however. If there are any differences, they would be mostly with the "unders", IMO. I wouldn't use "under" or "underneath" unless what was I was "under (neath)" was actually over me. I would use "beneath" (or below) for things that are higher than I, but not directly over me. For example, I could walk "beneath" the trees without having tree limbs directly over my head. But I would only use "under" and "underneat" if the tree limbs were actually over my position.

One can't lie under a night of any kind. It is also not idiomatic to lie under a skyline.

All three of your cave examples work for me. :wink:

There's a fourth synonym - below. You can say that something lies below or above the skyline.
 

blacknomi

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Student or Learner
MikeNewYork said:
blacknomi said:
I'm confused with these prepositions:


I lie under a stary night.
I lie underneath the skyline.

There are caves under the bround.
There are caves underneath the ground.
There are caves beneath the ground. (this is wrong)


Is there any possible rules I can use to explain to students?[/quiote]

The prepositions "beneath", "underneath", and "under" are synonyms. In most cases, they can be used interchangeably. There are some idioms and pat phrases that do not allow substitutions, however. If there are any differences, they would be mostly with the "unders", IMO. I wouldn't use "under" or "underneath" unless what was I was "under (neath)" was actually over me. I would use "beneath" (or below) for things that are higher than I, but not directly over me. For example, I could walk "beneath" the trees without having tree limbs directly over my head. But I would only use "under" and "underneat" if the tree limbs were actually over my position.

One can't lie under a night of any kind. It is also not idiomatic to lie under a skyline.

All three of your cave examples work for me. :wink:


LeAnn Rimes
1.Can't fight the moonlight

*Under a lover's sky
Gonna be with you
And no one's gonna be around
*If you think that you won't fall
Well just wait untill
'Til the sun goes down

Underneath the starlight, starlight
There's a magical feeling so right
It will steal your heart tonight

Thank you, Mike.

BUT
In her lyrics, can one lie under a love's sky? It a bit conflicts with what you mentioned.



sabrina :cry:
 
S

Susie Smith

Guest
blacknomi said:
MikeNewYork said:
blacknomi said:
I'm confused with these prepositions:


I lie under a stary night.
I lie underneath the skyline.

There are caves under the bround.
There are caves underneath the ground.
There are caves beneath the ground. (this is wrong)


Is there any possible rules I can use to explain to students?[/quiote]

The prepositions "beneath", "underneath", and "under" are synonyms. In most cases, they can be used interchangeably. There are some idioms and pat phrases that do not allow substitutions, however. If there are any differences, they would be mostly with the "unders", IMO. I wouldn't use "under" or "underneath" unless what was I was "under (neath)" was actually over me. I would use "beneath" (or below) for things that are higher than I, but not directly over me. For example, I could walk "beneath" the trees without having tree limbs directly over my head. But I would only use "under" and "underneat" if the tree limbs were actually over my position.

One can't lie under a night of any kind. It is also not idiomatic to lie under a skyline.

All three of your cave examples work for me. :wink:


LeAnn Rimes
1.Can't fight the moonlight

*Under a lover's sky
Gonna be with you
And no one's gonna be around
*If you think that you won't fall
Well just wait untill
'Til the sun goes down

Underneath the starlight, starlight
There's a magical feeling so right
It will steal your heart tonight

Thank you, Mike.

BUT
In her lyrics, can one lie under a love's sky? It a bit conflicts with what you mentioned.



sabrina :cry:

All is fair in love and war, and in poetry, too.
 

blacknomi

Key Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Member Type
Student or Learner
Susie Smith said:
blacknomi said:
MikeNewYork said:
blacknomi said:
I'm confused with these prepositions:


I lie under a stary night.
I lie underneath the skyline.

There are caves under the bround.
There are caves underneath the ground.
There are caves beneath the ground. (this is wrong)


Is there any possible rules I can use to explain to students?[/quiote]

The prepositions "beneath", "underneath", and "under" are synonyms. In most cases, they can be used interchangeably. There are some idioms and pat phrases that do not allow substitutions, however. If there are any differences, they would be mostly with the "unders", IMO. I wouldn't use "under" or "underneath" unless what was I was "under (neath)" was actually over me. I would use "beneath" (or below) for things that are higher than I, but not directly over me. For example, I could walk "beneath" the trees without having tree limbs directly over my head. But I would only use "under" and "underneat" if the tree limbs were actually over my position.

One can't lie under a night of any kind. It is also not idiomatic to lie under a skyline.

All three of your cave examples work for me. :wink:


LeAnn Rimes
1.Can't fight the moonlight

*Under a lover's sky
Gonna be with you
And no one's gonna be around
*If you think that you won't fall
Well just wait untill
'Til the sun goes down

Underneath the starlight, starlight
There's a magical feeling so right
It will steal your heart tonight

Thank you, Mike.

BUT
In her lyrics, can one lie under a love's sky? It a bit conflicts with what you mentioned.



sabrina :cry:

All is fair in love and war, and in poetry, too.


Well...I wish I'll bcome an english Expert when I wake up tomorrow morning.

I don't really understand the meaning "underneath the startlight". I think under works as well.


sabrina :cry:
 
S

Susie Smith

Guest
blacknomi said:
Susie Smith said:
blacknomi said:
MikeNewYork said:
blacknomi said:
I'm confused with these prepositions:


I lie under a stary night.
I lie underneath the skyline.

There are caves under the bround.
There are caves underneath the ground.
There are caves beneath the ground. (this is wrong)


Is there any possible rules I can use to explain to students?[/quiote]

The prepositions "beneath", "underneath", and "under" are synonyms. In most cases, they can be used interchangeably. There are some idioms and pat phrases that do not allow substitutions, however. If there are any differences, they would be mostly with the "unders", IMO. I wouldn't use "under" or "underneath" unless what was I was "under (neath)" was actually over me. I would use "beneath" (or below) for things that are higher than I, but not directly over me. For example, I could walk "beneath" the trees without having tree limbs directly over my head. But I would only use "under" and "underneat" if the tree limbs were actually over my position.

One can't lie under a night of any kind. It is also not idiomatic to lie under a skyline.

All three of your cave examples work for me. :wink:


LeAnn Rimes
1.Can't fight the moonlight

*Under a lover's sky
Gonna be with you
And no one's gonna be around
*If you think that you won't fall
Well just wait untill
'Til the sun goes down

Underneath the starlight, starlight
There's a magical feeling so right
It will steal your heart tonight

Thank you, Mike.

BUT
In her lyrics, can one lie under a love's sky? It a bit conflicts with what you mentioned.



sabrina :cry:

All is fair in love and war, and in poetry, too.


Well...I wish I'll bcome an english Expert when I wake up tomorrow morning.

I don't really understand the meaning "underneath the startlight". I think under works as well.


sabrina :cry:
 

RonBee

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Under the sparkling stars, beneath the night sky,
Feeling the night's chill, I watched a hawk fly.

:)
 
S

Susie Smith

Guest
Susie Smith said:
blacknomi said:
Susie Smith said:
blacknomi said:
MikeNewYork said:
blacknomi said:
I'm confused with these prepositions:


I lie under a stary night.
I lie underneath the skyline.

There are caves under the bround.
There are caves underneath the ground.
There are caves beneath the ground. (this is wrong)


Is there any possible rules I can use to explain to students?[/quiote]

The prepositions "beneath", "underneath", and "under" are synonyms. In most cases, they can be used interchangeably. There are some idioms and pat phrases that do not allow substitutions, however. If there are any differences, they would be mostly with the "unders", IMO. I wouldn't use "under" or "underneath" unless what was I was "under (neath)" was actually over me. I would use "beneath" (or below) for things that are higher than I, but not directly over me. For example, I could walk "beneath" the trees without having tree limbs directly over my head. But I would only use "under" and "underneat" if the tree limbs were actually over my position.

One can't lie under a night of any kind. It is also not idiomatic to lie under a skyline.

All three of your cave examples work for me. :wink:


LeAnn Rimes
1.Can't fight the moonlight

*Under a lover's sky
Gonna be with you
And no one's gonna be around
*If you think that you won't fall
Well just wait untill
'Til the sun goes down

Underneath the starlight, starlight
There's a magical feeling so right
It will steal your heart tonight

Thank you, Mike.

BUT
In her lyrics, can one lie under a love's sky? It a bit conflicts with what you mentioned.



sabrina :cry:

All is fair in love and war, and in poetry, too.


Well...I wish I'll bcome an english Expert when I wake up tomorrow morning.

I don't really understand the meaning "underneath the startlight". I think under works as well.


sabrina :cry:

Frankly, so do I. IMO, we can put the lyrics down to poetic license. Mike said it isn't idiomatic to say you are lying under a skyline or night, and I can agree with him on that point. English can be rather funny at times. For instance, we lie or sit in the sun even though we are positioned below it. Getting back to the subject, if you have a Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English, you will see that beneath "under" there is a rather lengthy USAGE NOTE comparing under, underneath, below, and beneath. Of course, it's BE, which I don't always agree with :) :wink: , and I don't think this matter is important enough to worry about. Now, Mike, how can we rephrase the lines in question to make them idiomatically acceptable?
 

blacknomi

Key Member
Joined
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Member Type
Student or Learner
Susie Smith said:
Frankly, so do I. IMO, we can put the lyrics down to poetic license. Mike said it isn't idiomatic to say you are lying under a skyline or night, and I can agree with him on that point. English can be rather funny at times. For instance, we lie or sit in the sun even though we are positioned below it. Getting back to the subject, if you have a Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English, you will see that beneath "under" there is a rather lengthy USAGE NOTE comparing under, underneath, below, and beneath. Of course, it's BE, which I don't always agree with :) :wink: , and I don't think this matter is important enough to worry about. Now, Mike, how can we rephrase the lines in question to make them idiomatically acceptable?

Hi, Susie,
thank you for explanation. I guess I grasp the main idea of those confusing preposition. I checked Longman Dictionary and they give clear definition. I get confused because in my language, we use one word to mean under/underneath/bellow...... anyway thank you sooo much.


Mike, do you remember when you were a kid, how did you learn these annoying prepositions like under/bellow/beneath/underneath? Maybe you can teach me some tips. :D


sabrina :roll:
 

MikeNewYork

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blacknomi said:
MikeNewYork said:
blacknomi said:
I'm confused with these prepositions:


I lie under a stary night.
I lie underneath the skyline.

There are caves under the bround.
There are caves underneath the ground.
There are caves beneath the ground. (this is wrong)


Is there any possible rules I can use to explain to students?[/quiote]

The prepositions "beneath", "underneath", and "under" are synonyms. In most cases, they can be used interchangeably. There are some idioms and pat phrases that do not allow substitutions, however. If there are any differences, they would be mostly with the "unders", IMO. I wouldn't use "under" or "underneath" unless what was I was "under (neath)" was actually over me. I would use "beneath" (or below) for things that are higher than I, but not directly over me. For example, I could walk "beneath" the trees without having tree limbs directly over my head. But I would only use "under" and "underneat" if the tree limbs were actually over my position.

One can't lie under a night of any kind. It is also not idiomatic to lie under a skyline.

All three of your cave examples work for me. :wink:


LeAnn Rimes
1.Can't fight the moonlight

*Under a lover's sky
Gonna be with you
And no one's gonna be around
*If you think that you won't fall
Well just wait untill
'Til the sun goes down

Underneath the starlight, starlight
There's a magical feeling so right
It will steal your heart tonight

Thank you, Mike.

BUT
In her lyrics, can one lie under a love's sky? It a bit conflicts with what you mentioned.



sabrina :cry:

Yes, one can lie under a sky. A skyline is a horizontal projection (outline)or silhouette of buildings or the horizon line as it meets the earth. One can not get under either. Night is a time; we can't lie under it either. Nevertheless, in poetry, one can do many strange things. :wink:
 

blacknomi

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MikeNewYork said:
Yes, one can lie under a sky. A skyline is a horizontal projection (outline)or silhouette of buildings or the horizon line as it meets the earth. One can not get under either. Night is a time; we can't lie under it either. Nevertheless, in poetry, one can do many strange things. :wink:


Mike,
Thank you very much. Haven't seen you for a while. What's keeping you?

Have a nice weekend.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
sabrina
 

MikeNewYork

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blacknomi said:
MikeNewYork said:
Yes, one can lie under a sky. A skyline is a horizontal projection (outline)or silhouette of buildings or the horizon line as it meets the earth. One can not get under either. Night is a time; we can't lie under it either. Nevertheless, in poetry, one can do many strange things. :wink:


Mike,
Thank you very much. Haven't seen you for a while. What's keeping you?

Have a nice weekend.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
sabrina

I try to get here every day. Sometimes work intervenes. :wink:
 

blacknomi

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MikeNewYork said:
I try to get here every day. Sometimes work intervenes. :wink:

may i ask what kind of animals are you taking care of?
I have 3 cute birds. I trained those birds to have a shower everyday, and to choose some lucky numbers for my monthly lotto. But I just can't discipline them not to empty the bowels on my shoulder.


:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
sabrina
 

MikeNewYork

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blacknomi said:
MikeNewYork said:
I try to get here every day. Sometimes work intervenes. :wink:

may i ask what kind of animals are you taking care of?
I have 3 cute birds. I trained those birds to have a shower everyday, and to choose some lucky numbers for my monthly lotto. But I just can't discipline them not to empty the bowels on my shoulder.


:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
sabrina

:lol:

I mostly take care of dogs and cats, but my hospital sees everything that can fit through the door. A month ago, I treated a lion; last week we had two goats and a sheep. Never a dull moment. :shock:
 

blacknomi

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Student or Learner
MikeNewYork said:
blacknomi said:
MikeNewYork said:
I try to get here every day. Sometimes work intervenes. :wink:

may i ask what kind of animals are you taking care of?
I have 3 cute birds. I trained those birds to have a shower everyday, and to choose some lucky numbers for my monthly lotto. But I just can't discipline them not to empty the bowels on my shoulder.


:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
sabrina

:lol:

I mostly take care of dogs and cats, but my hospital sees everything that can fit through the door. A month ago, I treated a lion; last week we had two goats and a sheep. Never a dull moment. :shock:


WOW! COOL! You must be Jeff Corwin and Chomsky's friend.
 

MikeNewYork

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Susie Smith said:
Frankly, so do I. IMO, we can put the lyrics down to poetic license. Mike said it isn't idiomatic to say you are lying under a skyline or night, and I can agree with him on that point. English can be rather funny at times. For instance, we lie or sit in the sun even though we are positioned below it. Getting back to the subject, if you have a Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English, you will see that beneath "under" there is a rather lengthy USAGE NOTE comparing under, underneath, below, and beneath. Of course, it's BE, which I don't always agree with :) :wink: , and I don't think this matter is important enough to worry about. Now, Mike, how can we rephrase the lines in question to make them idiomatically acceptable?

I don't really have a problem with thelines in question.

*Under a lover's sky
Gonna be with you
And no one's gonna be around
*If you think that you won't fall
Well just wait untill
'Til the sun goes down

Underneath the starlight, starlight
There's a magical feeling so right
It will steal your heart tonight

We certainly can be under the sky. "Lover's sky" brings up images of a starry sky, probably with shooting stars abounding. :roll:

Under the starlight is also not much of a stretch. It brings to mind being under a spotlight. :wink:
 

MikeNewYork

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blacknomi said:
Mike, do you remember when you were a kid, how did you learn these annoying prepositions like under/bellow/beneath/underneath? Maybe you can teach me some tips. :D


sabrina :roll:

That is one deficit that NESs have. I really don't remember when or how I began to differentiate them. My guess is it came from running into the usages of other NESs, but not all NESs use words the same way. :?
 

MikeNewYork

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blacknomi said:
MikeNewYork said:
blacknomi said:
MikeNewYork said:
I try to get here every day. Sometimes work intervenes. :wink:

may i ask what kind of animals are you taking care of?
I have 3 cute birds. I trained those birds to have a shower everyday, and to choose some lucky numbers for my monthly lotto. But I just can't discipline them not to empty the bowels on my shoulder.


:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
sabrina

:lol:

I mostly take care of dogs and cats, but my hospital sees everything that can fit through the door. A month ago, I treated a lion; last week we had two goats and a sheep. Never a dull moment. :shock:


WOW! COOL! You must be Jeff Corwin and Chomsky's friend.

LOL! I am not a big fan of Chomsky, either his linguistic theories or his politics. :x
 

blacknomi

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MikeNewYork said:
LOL! I am not a big fan of Chomsky, either his linguistic theories or his politics. :x

Neither am I.
It was him that made me suffer at school. :cry:
 
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