British and American English Differences

[guofei_ma]

Greetings, chaps:

This forum is for discussion on the differences between British and American English. There is no need to discuss different spellings since webpages that provide basic American/British spelling differences can be found all over the Internet. Rather, what would be of interest are vocabulary differences, pronunciation differences, intonation differences and the tendencies of people from different regions to use different expressions, colloquialisms, idioms, and "speaking styles".

Here's my first contribution to the forum-
Different vowels are pronounced "ah" in British and American varieties of English.
The "a" in father, bard, and lark is pronounced "ah" everywhere.
The "a" in path, laugh, and class is pronounced "ah" in Southern England but pronounced as the short a in Northern England and in the United States.
The "o" in proper, locker, and opulent is pronounced "ah" in Southwestern England and in the United States but pronounced "o" with the lips rounded in the Southeastern England, Northern England, Wales, and Scotland.

Here's my first query-
I would be interested in knowing when Canadians use the "ah" sound.

 

[Anonymous]

I filched this from somewhere a while ago:

The dime.
The dime easier.
They tell me the dime easier.
They tell me the dime easier to understand.
They tell me that I'm easier to understand.

The last two sentences above should be pronounced exactly the same, no matter how they are written. It is the sound that is important, not the spelling.

Agree?

 

[Tdol]

Greetings, chaps:

This forum is for discussion on the differences between British and American English. There is no need to discuss different spellings since webpages that provide basic American/British spelling differences can be found all over the Internet. Rather, what would be of interest are vocabulary differences, pronunciation differences, intonation differences and the tendencies of people from different regions to use different expressions, colloquialisms, idioms, and "speaking styles".

Here's my first contribution to the forum-
Different vowels are pronounced "ah" in British and American varieties of English.
The "a" in father, bard, and lark is pronounced "ah" everywhere.
The "a" in path, laugh, and class is pronounced "ah" in Southern England but pronounced as the short a in Northern England and in the United States.
The "o" in proper, locker, and opulent is pronounced "ah" in Southwestern England and in the United States but pronounced "o" with the lips rounded in the Southeastern England, Northern England, Wales, and Scotland.

Here's my first query-
I would be interested in knowing when Canadians use the "ah" sound.

I'm afraid I'm not Canadian, so I'll have to go and ask some and come back to you.

 

[guofei_ma]

"They tell me that I'm easier to understand"
"They tell me the dime easier to understand"

The two phrases are pronounced the same in American English but differently in British English. In British English, the former phrase is pronounced...

"They tell me tha time easier to understahnd."

 

[Tdol]

This is waht a Canadian speaker told me:

"Father" and "proper" both have the ah sound. "Talk" is the same.

:shock:

 

[guofei_ma]

Thank you, TDOL. From what you posted, I deduce that Canadian pronunciation is closer to American than British, which implies that geographic proximity is much more influential than political affiliation. I wonder why the majority of Mexicans cannot speak English semi-fluently- perhaps it is lack of education in English, which either means that Mexico is too poor to offer free and compulsory public education or has not mandated English classes in schools.

 

[Lib]

It could also have to do with the fact that their mother tongue is Spanish.

 

[dduck]

I wonder why the majority of Mexicans cannot speak English semi-fluently- perhaps it is lack of education in English, which either means that Mexico is too poor to offer free and compulsory public education or has not mandated English classes in schools.

Why would Mexico be any different from any other non-English speaking country?

As far as I'm aware Mexico does have a compulsory public education system. Whether English is mandated or not I've no idea; I would guess so.

I studied French at school - it was mandated - do I speak any French now. Non!

Iain

 

[Samantha]

Candianisms

I grew up in California near San Francisco (PLEEESE don't call it Frisco- no one FROM here does :? ), spent a lot of time with family in the gold country (a couple hours north of Sacramento, the capital of California), attend university in Washington State (two years in eastern WA and two years in Western WA-practically two different states) and have a Canadian roommate. I really love listening for differences in the english language, primarily in North Americans (simply because they're the only ones that I've been in contact with...).

My roommate is from Southern Alberta, the province in Canada that is directly north of Montana. Her accent is a blend from Canada and Utah because Southern Alberta has a strong Utah influence (pioneers from Utah settled in Alberta sometime in the mid to late 1800's). Her father is a hoot to listen to because he talks about "bar pits" (a strictly utah phrase-comes from "borrow" meaning the ditch on the side of the road because you borrow the dirt from the ditch to make the road...) and finishes his sentence with "eh?".

My roommate usually sounds like a West coast American except when she pronounces these words:

llama- the "a" pronounced like in the word lamb, as in Mary had a little...
process- the "o" is a long o, americans say"prahcess"

Otherwise she usually just annunciates her words more clearly (I've noticed this in several canadians).

Here are a few words and phrases that she uses that also amuse me:

-garberator- garbage disposal
-runners- running shoes
-icing sugar- powdered sugar
-grade 10, as opposed to 10th grade, or even the nomenclature Freshman, sophmore, junior, senior-she'd never heard of these until she moved to the states
-she also doesn't go to college, she goes to university

According to her (just an average Canadian citizen...) Canada as a whole is more similar to the States than it is to England. The culture in Western Canada is more similar to West Coast United States than it is to the eastern half of it's own country.

 

[SandyG]

OMG I can't believe what I am reading here. Mexico, as many non-english speaking countries, has people that, whatever foreign language they learn, might as well speak it not fluently and with a strong accent.

I think in this sentence I have said several things to make a point:

1. Mexico is a non english speaking country. Mexican's mother tongue is spanish as lib appointed.

2. Whatever foreign language people learn means that, if mexican people, or chinese people or proeple from whatever country you can recall, learn a foreign language such as french, german, sweden (not only english!) will probably have an accent when speaking. The same as Americans, or British or Canadians; when they learn Spanish they always have a strong accent and have trouble speaking Spanich fluently.

3. So... it doesn't have to be people form Mexico, or English, or compulsory public education (which we have, so please get informed before making statements like this), but it has to do with:

a. having x or y mother tongue
b. learning a foreign language
c. the age when the foreign language is acquired
d. practice- hours
e. interaction with native speakers.
f. many other factors that influence in acquiring new vocabulary, fluency and pronunciation more like a native speaker, less foreign accent.

Thanks!

Sandy (from Mexico)

 

[SandyG]

FYI

In Mexico, according to the Constitution and despite being "too poor", people are obligated to attend to school form preschool to junior high, which is equivalent (as far as I know) to years preschool through 9th grade. Of course not, public education is not bilingual, and that is because our language is Spanish. For bilingual education is taught in private schools and even there people may not acquire fluency to speak English.

So again, I have to say, please, get informed. It is ok to talk about other countries and everything but I think it is important to be well informed and try not to be self centered.

Thanks!

 

[rogusx]

"They tell me that I'm easier to understand"
"They tell me the dime easier to understand"
The two phrases are pronounced the same in American English but differently in British English. In British English, the former phrase is pronounced...
"They tell me tha time easier to understahnd."

And by "ah" do you mean the sound in in "fAther"? That low, back vowel is the one usually represented by "ah" and it is definitely not the vowel used in RP "understand". The only major difference between the RP and General American pronunciations of the word "understand" would be the pronunciation of the "r" by General American, and its absence from the RP realisation.

 

[Matamoros]

I wonder why the majority of Mexicans cannot speak English semi-fluently- perhaps it is lack of education in English, which either means that Mexico is too poor to offer free and compulsory public education or has not mandated English classes in schools.

I wonder why the majority of Americans can't speak Spanish.

Matamoros (AKA Ekdog)

 

[Hayseed]

I wonder why the majority of Americans can't speak Spanish.

Matamoros (AKA Ekdog)

No need to get your arse all up in the air, Matamoros :-? .
It`s true, most native Spanish speakers (not just Mexicans) do a poor job of speaking English. But my opinion is that the majority of people who have to, or need to learn a foreign language to succeed socially, at work, or whatever won`t put in the effort neccessary to become reasonably fluent in that language. For instance, I "study" the German language as a hobby. It`s something I want to learn, as opposed to something I have to learn. This allows the luxury of me taking my time, practicing pronunciation and so forth without being under pressure to cram my brain full of it in a relatively short amount of time. See what I`m getting at?
Also, we Americans are notoriously lacking (for the most part) in foreign language skills. I guess most of us don`t feel the need to learn other languages since English is spoken (rather poorly) all around the world.

 

[Matamoros]

"No need to get your arse all up in the air, Matamoros :-? ."

If you don't mind, I'll place my arse wherever it pleaseth me, and if I decide to take issue with a statement that smacks of bigotry, I'll do that, too.

"It`s true, most native Spanish speakers (not just Mexicans) do a poor job of speaking English."

I know plenty of them that do a smack-up job of it. Do you base that comment on studies that follow the scientific method or are you simply bashing Mexicans and other Spanish-speakers because you have a bone to pick with them?

You are a racist, aren't you?
​

 

[Hayseed]

You are a racist, aren't you?
​

I`m not racist nor am I a bigot, and do not appreciate your implication.
Perhaps I didn`t make my point clearly enough. I didn`t intend to single out Spanish speakers. My opinion is that everyone other than native speakers do a poor job of speaking English. I don`t know exactly why this is; how can so many people speaking so many different languages all make the same mistakes? I believe it may be because of the lack of effort, as I said before. Possibly too many foreigners feel English is "pushed" on them, so therefore don`t make (and don`t want to make) enough effort to become fluent.
I don`t need a scientific study to tell me when someone is doing a crappy job of speaking (well, attempting to speak) my native language. Do whatever you want with your arse, but I think you`re talking from it.

 

[rogusx]

Do you think this is inherent to non-native speakers of English or have you considered the possibility that this phenomenon affects non-native speakers of ANY language? I am yet to find a non-native speaker of Spanish (especially of the anglo-saxon sort) that can do a really satisfying job at Spanish. I'm not particularly offended by this, and I do not consider them lazy, I simply acknowledge that gaining full command of a foreign language is somewhat more complicated than studying grammar and vocabulary. Particularly in the case of older learners of a foreign language, accurate "native-like" pronunciation is tough if not impossible.
Maybe non-native speakers of English have more visibility than, say, non-native speakers of Dutch.

 

[Tdol]

When a thread has started to get abusive, it has lost track. It is possible to discuss ideas without leaping to calling people 'racists', which is a very serious thing to call someone, and should not be used lightly. There have been some generalisations here, but, as Sandy says, the correct response is to 'get informed', rather than start name calling. Thanks.

 

[Hayseed]

Maybe non-native speakers of English have more visibility than, say, non-native speakers of Dutch.

But rogusx, this is what (at least part of what) I`m trying to get across.
First, I don`t expect ANY non-native speaker to perfectly nail any aspect of the English language. I suppose I buy into the idea that you`ll find some foreign languages "easier" to learn than others, based on your own native tongue. But it recently occured to me that it`s possible the English language simply does not have a a good "match-up" with any other language. I`m not a linguistic expert, so can`t say if this is true or not.
I just find it hard to believe that English is THAT difficult for non-native speakers to pronounce & speak. But hey, it must be.

@tdol-My apologies to anyone I may have offended. My post was taken way out of context.

 

[Tdol]

If a langauge has sounds that don't exist in your own language, it can be very difficult to reproduce them, or even hear them. ;-)