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navi tasan

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1-Your friend was defeated and you will be defeated too, by me.

Can we tell from the sentence whether 'your friend' was defeated by me or not?

It seems to me that the sentence is ambiguous and it is not clear whether 'I' defeated 'your friend' or not.
Am I correct?
 

lisa marin

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Hi!

It agree with you. The sentences is ambiguous. It sounds to me as though someone else defeated "I".
 

stuartnz

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I'm not a teacher, but I would agree that there is nothing in the sentence which makes it clear who defeated the friend. In fact, I would tend to read that sentence as implying that the speaker was not the one who defeated the friend. For example, here's a nearly identical construction: "Hannibal was defeated (by the Romans), and you will be too, by me." That's the sort of reading I'd make of the sentence you posted.
 

susiedqq

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Your friend was defeated and you will be defeated too, by me.

The word, "too" means "also." So there is no problem in understanding that your friend was defeated by me and you will also be defeated by me.
 

stuartnz

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Your friend was defeated and you will be defeated too, by me.

The word, "too" means "also." So there is no problem in understanding that your friend was defeated by me and you will also be defeated by me.


Even though the word too means "also", the placement of "too" does not make it clear who defeated the friend. The only thing known for sure is that the friend was defeated and that the speaker will defeat the person addressed. In the sentence, "Napoleon was defeated, and you will be too, by me." - would you read that as the speaker saying that they defeated Napoleon?

"Your friend was defeated by me, and you will be too ." would make plain the situation you describe. So far, two respondents see the original statement as suggesting the possibility, or even the likelihood, that the friend was defeated by someone other than the speaker. It will be interesting to read other views on this.
 

David L.

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Your friend was defeated and you too will be defeated by me.

I defeated the friend.

Your friend was defeated and you will be defeated too by me.
I defeated the friend

Your friend was defeated, and you will be defeated too - by me.

Definitely - someone else defeated the friend.

But...
Your friend was defeated and you will be defeated too, by me.
The meaning is more towards, I defeated the friend.
 
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stuartnz

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But...
Your friend was defeated and you will be defeated too, by me.
The meaning is more towards, I defeated the friend.

What is there about this structure that makes it lean toward this meaning? I still see the meaning as ambiguous but pointing away from the meaning you give. I see the comma as making the difference, because I agree that "Your friend was defeated and you will be defeated too by me." means that the speaker defeated the friend. When I say it out loud with the comma, I still hear the sort of distinction I attempted to illustrate with my examples. Do you think that "Napoleon was defeated and you will be too, by me" sounds like the speaker is claiming to have defeated Napoleon?
 

David L.

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Don't take me to task for other people's poor punctuation. The sentence should be:

"Napoleon was defeated, and you will be too, by me"

The onus is on the writer to ensure he uses the tools of English grammar, syntax and punctuation to convey the meaning he intends, so poor sods like us aren't trying to divine it at 3 in the morning!

Otherwise, in the sentence as you wrote it, yes, I defeated Napoleon and you're next - right after that Nurse Ratchad of a doctor gives me my medication.
 
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stuartnz

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Don't take me to task for other people's poor punctuation.

I didn't take you to task for anything. I apologise for having asked, and won't repeat that error in future.
 

David L.

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Perhaps I should have included :):-D;-);-);-):lol::lol:

to indicate I was being completely lighthearted in my response!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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