comparative x superlative

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alex 1

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Hi,there.

I think the second sentence is corrct since superalative adjectives mean very much without the;thus, your second sentence is paraphrased as " Some people learn very good by going to a class.".
 

Abstract Idea

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My feeling is that if it's not a sentence don't punctuate it as one.

Would you please indicate some good references which corroborate this point?
I am not doubting they exist, this is a sincere student asking for references.
 

2006

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This is an interesting point. I have been reading this claim of 2006 here and in other threads. But personally I like to punctuate everything.
Punctuating everything would seem to make as little sense as punctuating nothing.

But let me step back and say that I was talking primarily about capitalizing the first letter of the first word and puting a period at the end of something that is not a complete sentence.

However, internal punctuation can be useful in something that is not a complete sentence.
nice explanations, made things clear

What is the value of capitalizing the first word and putting a period at the end of something like the above? To me it's only a thoughtless habit.

But I have to say that although I am not a young teenager anymore I am not any kind of language professional.) Neither am I, but that shouldn't stop us from giving our opinions. They might even have some merit.
And do language professionals say that sentence fragments should be capitalized, etc. just as complete sentences are?

Thanks for your input. :)

!
2006
 

2006

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Would you please indicate some good references which corroborate this point?
I am not doubting they exist, this is a sincere student asking for references.
I could also ask you to find some references that say that everything should be capitalized/punctuated like a full sentence.

Common sense says that not every thing needs to be treated like a full sentence.
If someone asks a simple yes/no question. I will just write 'no'. Nothing will convince me to write 'No.'!
'No.' looks ridiculous.
 

IHIVG

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nice explanations, made things clear

What is the value of capitalizing the first word and putting a period at the end of something like the above? To me it's only a thoughtless habit.
And to me it's a valid usage. It's actually a complete sentence, if you capitalize the first word and put a period at the end. (I would even devide it into two sentences).
A complete sentence does not necessarily have to contain both subject and predicate. It can consist of one word: "Good.", "Uh-huh." "Absolutely!"

And do language professionals say that sentence fragments should be capitalized, etc. just as complete sentences are?
I don't know what language professionals say, but I'm sure if you take any excerpts from literature, for example, you'll never see a sentence written without capital letters and a punctuation mark at the end. Any sentence - 'incomplete' (by your definition) or otherwise. Here are some examples:
He lay crumpled on his back. Very lonely, very dead.
No answer. Silence. Not even a sound of breathing.
"You say you've seen them before: where was that at?" "In England before the war."

Are you implying that these are not sentences and we should start them with lowercase letters and omit periods?
 

sarat_106

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***** NOT A TEACHER *****

Good morning, Sarat.

(1) Like about 100 other people, I have been following this thread with especial interest.

(2) One of the best teachers at this site stated that your sentence ("Some people learn better in groups but many learn best by themselves" is problematic.

(3) He states, however, that it would be correct if it were changed to two sentences: Some people learn better in groups. Many learn best by themselves.

(4) I recently discussed this with an experienced teacher who grades ESL examination papers. She doesn't understand either why the sentence in No. 2 is rejected, but the sentence in No. 3 is accepted.

(5) I hope someone will use very simple baby steps to explain the problem to me. I am a very slow learner.

Have a nice day!

Thanks, The parser.

English is certainly an interesting and absorbing language but then at times you meet with frustration if it is your second language. I am sure, no one can claim to achieve perfection after learning for his entire life, even if he is a native speaker. I am happy to know that there is at least someone who tick marked my sentence as acceptable
 

2006

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And to me it's a valid usage. It's actually a complete sentence, if you capitalize the first word and put a period at the end. No, it's not!
A complete sentence does not necessarily have to contain both subject and predicate. It can consist of one word: "Good.", "Uh-huh." "Absolutely!"
really?? What you say is a joke.

I don't know what language professionals say, but I'm sure if you take any excerpts from literature, for example, you'll never see a sentence written without capital letters and a punctuation mark at the end. yes, if it's a complete sentence (see below)*


He lay crumpled on his back. That's a complete sentence.
Very lonely, very dead. not a sentence
No answer. Silence. Not even a sound of breathing. not sentences
Capitalization and a period at the end do not make a complete sentence. You have things backwards.

"You say you've seen them before: where was that at?" "In England before the war." This is a conversation, so the question of punctuation is not relevant. But if you are writing a book, for example, and you are relating oral communication, the editor might require you to write it like that, for whatever reason. *

Are you implying that these are not sentences and we should start them with lowercase letters and omit periods?
"In England before the war." is not a sentence, no matter how many times you claim it is! But you can believe whatever you wish.

Also, my comments about the topic have only directly concerned what has been written on this site.

I hope to have nothing more to say about this topic. If you don't like my opinion, you can ignore it. But don't try to say that sentence fragments are sentences. Some other student may believe you.
Actually, other teachers have also pointed it out to students when some of their 'sentences' are just fragments. I am taking it one step further in saying that fragments shouldn't be capitalized/punctuated. There's just no good reason to do it.
2006
 
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Abstract Idea

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I could also ask you to find some references that say that everything should be capitalized/punctuated like a full sentence.

Common sense says that not every thing needs to be treated like a full sentence.
If someone asks a simple yes/no question. I will just write 'no'. Nothing will convince me to write 'No.'!
'No.' looks ridiculous.

At this very moment I am pretty convinced that this is a matter of style.
I don't have the references you could ask me now, if any time in the future I happen to find one I'll post here. But I never tried to say your point of not punctuating non sentences here (and also elsewhere, why not?) is wrong. When you say "looks ridiculous" I guess in your personal point of view the "punctuating everything style" looks ridiculous.

Regarding what a sentence is, I had already noticed that in English the definition you use is the one spread out. I have adhered to it and have taught some students it. It seems natural.
But IHIVG's post reminded me that it is a conventional definition.


Let us reread part of your answer to IHIVG:
And to me it's a valid usage. It's actually a complete sentence, if you capitalize the first word and put a period at the end. No, it's not!
A complete sentence does not necessarily have to contain both subject and predicate. It can consist of one word: "Good.", "Uh-huh." "Absolutely!"
really?? What you say is a joke.

I don't know what language professionals say, but I'm sure if you take any excerpts from literature, for example, you'll never see a sentence written without capital letters and a punctuation mark at the end. yes, if it's a complete sentence (see below)*


He lay crumpled on his back. That's a complete sentence.
Very lonely, very dead. not a sentence
No answer. Silence. Not even a sound of breathing. not sentences
Capitalization and a period at the end do not make a complete sentence. You have things backwards.
I sincerely find your style interesting. It is good for my eyes to read and appreciate your careful style above of not punctuating what is not a complete sentence. It is consistent, accentuates and clarifies the differences between sentences and "fragments." However, as I wrote previously, personally I prefer to punctuate everything.

I wonder what those famous writing style manuals say about this point.
 

IHIVG

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And to me it's a valid usage. It's actually a complete sentence, if you capitalize the first word and put a period at the end. No, it's not!
A complete sentence does not necessarily have to contain both subject and predicate. It can consist of one word: "Good.", "Uh-huh." "Absolutely!"
really?? What you say is a joke.
I heard that school curriculums in English-speaking countries do not require spending much time on the grammar of your own language. We have the grammar lessons from the 1st grade up to graduation. I perfectly remember the so-called one-word sentences, which ARE sentences if they have either a predicate: “Go!”, or a subject in them: “Night. Silence.”

I don't know what language professionals say, but I'm sure if you take any excerpts from literature, for example, you'll never see a sentence written without capital letters and a punctuation mark at the end. yes, if it's acomplete sentence(see below)*


He lay crumpled on his back. That'sa complete sentence.
Very lonely, very dead. not a sentence
No answer. Silence. Not even a sound of breathing. not sentences
Capitalization and a period at the end do not make a complete sentence. You have things backwards. Right, not everything that is capitalized and has a period at the end is considered to be a complete sentence. But this is not the case with the sentence above – at least not with “No answer. Silence.” since they both have a subject. I would go so far as to question the legitimacy of “Very lonely, very dead.” as a sentence. It may be not. But this is not my primal argument anyway. You said that there is no room for capitalization and a period in the sentences that are but ‘sentence fragments’ (again, by your own definition). Then how would you explain the fact that you will never see these one-word sentences/fragments starting with a lower-case letter in any types of books or articles? You have put yourself in a pretty untenable position which will be hard to defend.

"You say you've seen them before: where was that at?" "In England before the war." This is a conversation, so the question of punctuation is not relevant. But if you are writing a book, for example, and you are relating oral communication, the editor might require you to write it like that, for whatever reason. *

Are you implying that these are not sentences and we should start them with lowercase letters and omit periods?
"In England before the war." is not a sentence, no matter how many times you claim it is! But you can believe whatever you wish. Ok, I agree. There is neither predicate nor subject in it so it’s not a sentence, technically. But does it mean it should be written as you claim?

I hope to have nothing more to say about this topic.If you don't like my opinion, you can ignore it. But don't try to say that sentence fragments are sentences.
I’m not saying that. But your advice to students that one-word sentences should not be punctuated or capitalized is way off the right track. Some other student may believe you.
Actually, other teachers have also pointed it out to students when some of their 'sentences' are just fragments. I am taking it one step further in saying that fragments shouldn't be capitalized/punctuated. There's just no good reason to do it.
And what is a good reason to NOT do it? Unless you are saying that it’s your preference or style (which seems to be a prevalent case with the punctuation of the English language), you have no good reason to say that it's correct or impose it on others. I, for one, like to put a period after a smiley :). I call it my style and I like it. But I’m not saying that everyone should do it too.
 

AdeExpress

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Pardon me but could you please tell me exactly what you mean with...

******not a teacher*****

thanks a lot


***** NOT A TEACHER *****

Good afternoon, Ademilson.

(1) Hopefully, one of the teachers will soon tell you and me the answer.

(2) May I just offer these ideas:

(a) Maybe many native speakers think both are "correct."

(b) Most books tell us that the comparative and superlative of adverbs are

used the same as the comparative and superlative of adverbs. That is,

use the comparative when two things are compared; use superlative when

three or more things are compared.

(i) Of course, there are many exceptions to the "rule."

(c) Here is a sentence from Mr. L. G. Alexander's very popular LONGMAN

ENGLISH GRAMMAR:

I work FASTEST when I'm under pressure.

(i) Mr. Alexander used the superlative. Many (maybe!) because of all the

different working conditions that are possible, the condition of my being

under pressure makes me work fastest.

(d) So let's look at your examples:

(i) Some people learn BETTER by going to class.

(a) Maybe (maybe) that means that they learn better by going to class THAN some other way (for example, taking classes on the Internet).

(ii) Some people learn BEST by going to class. Of the many ways to learn (going to class, taking classes on the Internet, hiring a tutor, being an apprentice, taking correspondence courses), going to class is how some people learn best of all.

Have a nice day!
 

TheParser

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Pardon me but could you please tell me exactly what you mean with...

******not a teacher*****

thanks a lot

Good morning, AdeExpress.

(1) When I registered to become a member, I had to read the rules.

(2) One rule REQUIRES anyone who is NOT a practicing teacher to state that fact at the BEGINNING of his/her post.

(a) This is very important.

(i) Students who ask questions here naturally want INFORMED answers.

(ii) If someone identifies him- or herself as "Not a teacher," then the

person asking the question can take that into consideration.

(iii) Furthermore, if a non-teacher gives a really outlandish answer, the

website will delete the misleading information.

Have a nice day!

P. S. I did not make it clear: Non-teachers who answer questions must say "Not a teacher." This rule does NOT apply to people who simply want to ASK a question.
 
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corum

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(These are) Nice explanations which make things clear. :tick:

Using capitalization and punctuation means that you think it is a complete sentence. It's not a sentence.

Please stop misleading students!

Common sense says that not every thing needs to be treated like a full sentence.

Whose common sense?
2006, "do not try be a teacher: You are not up to the task! Try being a student instead!"
 

2006

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Whose common sense?
svartnik, I thought you were banned from here. (As I remember, your 'name' didn't start with a capital letter.)

Since you raise the question again, I will give an example that shows that not everything should be capitalized and punctuated, that even you might be able to understand.

A person asks ''Are the following sentences correct?" And I answer as below.

1. y
2. y
3. n
4. y
5. n
6. n

Should every "y" and "n" be capitalized and have a period added?
Several people said that they capitalize everything.
 

Abstract Idea

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A person asks ''Are the following sentences correct?" And I answer as below.

1. y
2. y
3. n
4. y
5. n
6. n

Should every "y" and "n" be capitalized and have a period added?
Several people said that they capitalize "everything".

The word is not exactly "should". I have already said your style seems interesting.
In your example, first I would probably never write my answer that way, simply because I don't like it. But (never say never), if for some reason I was obliged to answer it like that, still I would prefer to capitalize and add a period.
 

2006

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But (never say never), if for some reason I was obliged to answer it like that, still I would prefer to capitalize and add a period.

I just can't understand why anyone would do such a silly thing! :roll:
 
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