[Grammar] conditionals

ShadeWe

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How many of them?

Every book I read says me that there are only three of them (or 4). For example, these books says that I shouldn't use future simple in "if-clause" in first conditional, but I came across the sentence with future simple in "if-clause" yesterday. I'd like to know all the combinations of tenses in ALL conditionals. More precisely, I want to know all the features. Probably some of combinations are used in formal speech? Can you explain me this, or give me the link where it's said about this? Thanks a lot in advance.




I'm sorry if there're mistakes in the text. I'd be glad if you correct 'em.
 

Rover_KE

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How many of them?

Every book I read [STRIKE]says[/STRIKE] tells me that there are only three of them (or 4). For example, these books [STRIKE]says[/STRIKE] say that I shouldn't use the future simple in an "if-clause" in the first conditional, but I came across [STRIKE]the[/STRIKE] ​a sentence with the future simple in an "if-clause" yesterday. I'd like to know all the combinations of tenses in ALL conditionals. More precisely, I want to know all the features. Probably some of combinations are used in formal speech? Can you explain [STRIKE]me[/STRIKE] this to me, or give me [STRIKE]the[/STRIKE] a link where it's [STRIKE]said about this[/STRIKE] explained? [STRIKE]Thanks a lot in advance[/STRIKE]. (Just click 'Thank' when you get a useful answer.)

I'm sorry if there are mistakes in the text. I'd be glad if you'd correct them.
Ask us again if you have any specific questions, ShadeWe.
 

jutfrank

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emsr2d2

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There shouldn't be a question mark at the end of either sentence in the previous post.
 

jutfrank

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There shouldn't be a question mark at the end of either sentence in the previous post.

I firmly disagree. The function of a question mark is to show that what you're writing is meant to be a question. Speech has the benefit of intonation whereas writing relies on punctuation.

If you disagree, please explain your reasons.
 

emsr2d2

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My justification is simply that on this forum we discourage learners from using "statement" constructions when actually they want to ask a question. People do, of course, use intonation in spoken English to indicate that what they just said was meant to be a question but, here, we tend to recommend that it's only written that way when directly quoting the spoken version.

I would have corrected the original to either "I think there are probably some combinations used in formal speech. Am I right?" or "Are there some combinations used in formal speech?"
 

jutfrank

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Online forums are an odd mix of spoken and written style. Here on Using English we have a responsibility to model all kinds language carefully to our users. This is not such a straightforward task given that a) the learners here represent a very wide range of abilities; b) we are replying to hundreds of users in our posts, not just addressing the original poster; and c) many learners will not be fully aware that we tend towards favouring a more formal written style than most other web forums.

In view of this, I suppose it is inevitable that members here will disagree on the right level of prescription to take when advising and correcting learners, and the right amount of detail and authenticity to give when modelling.

Although it's perhaps misleading to say that "There shouldn't be a question mark at the end of either sentence in the previous post", I agree with the reasons you give for correcting ShadeWe's question to "I think there are probably some combinations used in formal speech. Am I right?"
 

Tdol

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but I came across the sentence with future simple in "if-clause" yesterday.

That can be used when trying to negotiate something- it equalises things:

If you will join us, I will get the approval.
 

ShadeWe

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Thanks for correcting my mistakes, I really appreciate it.

But why can't I use the instead of a in the sentences below:

... Give me a link where it's explained?
... I came across a sentence with the future simple in ...

I've always thought that it's appropriate to use the before a noun when there's a "feature expression" after the noun. I don't know how to explain this, I hope you understand. I mean:

a book lying on the table - In my opinion, "a" doesn't fit here at all.
I think, a book is just a book, but when I say "the book lying on the table" I'm saying about a particular thing.

Don't the sentences above fit under these descriptions?


 

Tdol

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We can probably see the table, which will be the only one, but we don't know much information about the book, which makes it just a book. If we know which book you're talking about, then we would use the. You're asking for a single explanation when the internet might have many, so it's one of a possible number. If you know that it is the only webpage that offers an explanation, use the. We can tell you what a gerund is, but hundreds of other sites can do the same. There are millions and millions of sentences with the future simple- you have not found the only example.
 

teechar

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Thanks for correcting my mistakes. I really appreciate it.

But why can't I use "the" instead of "a" in the sentences below:

... Give me a link where it's explained?
... I came across a sentence with the future simple in ...
If you say "the link", that would imply there is only one link (website) that explains it.

I've always thought that it's appropriate to use "the" before a noun when there's a "feature expression" after the noun. I don't know how to explain this. I hope you understand.
I don't, I'm afraid.

I mean:
a book lying on the table - In my opinion, "a" doesn't fit here at all.
"Lying" may be redundant, but there's actually nothing wrong with that structure.
There was a book lying on that table along with an old teddy bear.

I think, a book is just a book, but when I say "the book lying on the table" I'm [STRIKE]saying[/STRIKE] talking about a particular book. [STRIKE]thing.[/STRIKE]
Yes, that's right.

 

ShadeWe

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Thanks. Now I understand this. I won't do the same mistakes. I'll try at least :)
 
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