"have never had" vs "had never had"

[subhajit123]

My friends and I are discussing about a grammar question that hasn't reached a conclusion. We were at a birthday party last night and we ate pizza there. Immediately after eating the pizza, one of my friends said "It was nice! I have never had pizza before." I told him that it should be "It was nice! I had never had pizza before. I think the past perfect tense should have been used because by the time he spoke about not having pizza, he actually had it. But I could not counter why he was wrong. Could someone please tell me "have never had" or "had never had" which one he should have used?

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

My friends and I are talking about a grammar question that hasn't reached a conclusion. We were at a birthday party last night and we ate pizza there. Immediately after eating the pizza, one of my friends said, "It was nice! I have never had pizza before." I told him that it should be "It was nice! I had never had (space) pizza before. I think the past perfect tense should have been used because by the time he spoke about not having pizza, he actually had it. But I could not counter why he was wrong. Could someone please tell me (delete: "have never had" or "had never had") which one he should have used?

He was right. So were you. Although your point about grammar is correct, both are good conversational English in that context.

When an experience is extremely recent, we often use the present perfect. If he were to say it the day after, he would probably want to use the past perfect. But since he was still in the moment, either tense is fine.

To make it more natural, you might both say "I've" rather than "I have."

 

[subhajit123]

Thank you Piscean and Charles. If my friend shared his thoughts about the moment he had pizza a few hours after having the pizza, which tense would be correct? Suppose my friend returned his home after the party and he started sharing his thoughts with his mom about having pizza at the party, Which tense would be more natural? "Hey mom, today I had pizza at the birthday party of John. I had/have never had pizza before"






I think in this case past perfect is more common. Am I right?

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

Again, either is fine.

Don't get hung up with hair-splitting. It's not as though at 12:00 we say "have" and at 12:01 we say "had."

"Have" simply implies immediacy. What's immediate to you might not be immediate to someone else. Let common sense be your guide.

 

[GoesStation]

People sometimes add a time marker when they use the present perfect for an event which may no longer feel immediate: I've never had pizza before today.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

I would use the past perfect if 'before today' were used. That phrase clearly shift the time-point into the past - for me at least.

Yes, it gets tricky fast.

I can say "My wife is the most interesting person I have met in the past thirty years" only because I have not met anyone more interesting since then.

Maybe those perfect tenses aren't so perfect after all. . . .

 

[Tdol]

But I could not counter why he was wrong.

He wasn't- the present perfect works fine here because the past experience (eating pizza) is related to present time. However, as Piscean says, the past perfect could also be used.