Hello, teachers. I have a question.

[Astro-D]

Hello, teachers. I have a question.

Could I say "I lost the umbrella which I bought the bay before." , when I want to say "I lost the umbrella which I had bought the bay before." ?
And, could I say "I knew that my mother was a nurse." , when I want to say "He knew that my mother had been a nurse." ?

Thank you for your time.
Astro-D :?:

 

[Lib]

Hi Astro
When you say 'bay' I presume you mean 'day'.
The first two sentences are correct, I suppose. You could use either the past simple or the past perfect. Both sentences make sense. I prefer the second one ' I lost the umbrella I had bought the day before', but I'm sure many people would say 'I lost the umbrella I bought the day before'. But then I'm old-fashioned and I still 'feel' that when you speak in the past and want to go to a previous past, you should use the past perfect.
There is a difference between the second pair of sentences.
'I /He knew that my mother was a nurse' means that your mother was (and may still be) a nurse at some time and 'He' knew it at the same time.
'He knew that my mother had been a nurse' means that He knew (at some point in the past) that your mother had been a nurse sometime before then, not at the same time.
I hope I haven't confused you.

 

[Tdol]

"I knew that my mother was a nurse." = she was working at that time
"He knew that my mother had been a nurse." that she was no longer working at that time

:lol:

 

[Lib]

You do that on purpose, don't you Tdol?
But what about this one: 'I knew you were here.' That doesn't necessarily refer to the past, even though the tense is past. It has the same construction as 'I knew that my mother was a nurse', so don't you think that the mother being a nurse could also be a present situation?

 

[Tdol]

The past can refer to the past, the present or the future. The use in 'I knew you were here' when you're talking to the person who is is here would, I suppose, be chosen because the knowledge was past. You could also say 'I knew you would be here' which would give the idea of the future in the past.

 

[Astro-D]

Hi, Lib. Hi, tdol.
I'm sorry. I submitted a wrong contribution. I think I should have checked my sentences. And, thank you for the correction. The right contribution is,
----------------------------------------
Hello, teachers. I have a question.
Could I say "I lost the umbrella which I bought the day before." , when I want to say "I lost the umbrella which I had bought the day before." ?
And, could I say "He knew that my mother was a nurse." , when I want to say "He knew that my mother had been a nurse." ?
Thank you for your time.
Astro-D
----------------------------------------

The first two sentences are correct, I suppose. You could use either the past simple or the past perfect. Both sentences make sense. I prefer the second one ' I lost the umbrella I had bought the day before', but I'm sure many people would say 'I lost the umbrella I bought the day before'. But then I'm old-fashioned and I still 'feel' that when you speak in the past and want to go to a previous past, you should use the past perfect.
There is a difference between the second pair of sentences.
'I /He knew that my mother was a nurse' means that your mother was (and may still be) a nurse at some time and 'He' knew it at the same time.
'He knew that my mother had been a nurse' means that He knew (at some point in the past) that your mother had been a nurse sometime before then, not at the same time.

Then, when you speak in the past and want to go to a previouseus past, you should basically use the past perfect. But, in paticular sentences, you could use either the past simple or the past perfect, you mean?

Thank you for your time.
Astro-D

 

[Tdol]

If the order is obvious, we often just use the past, especially in informal English. With before and after, for instance, where the order is obvious, we often stick with the past simple.

 

[Astro-D]

Hi, tdol.

If the order is obvious, we often just use the past, especially in informal English. With before and after, for instance, where the order is obvious, we often stick with the past simple.

I see.
If the order is obvious,
"I lost the umbrella which I had bought the day before." and "I lost the umbrella which I bought the day before." have the same meaning.
And, "He left home after he had finished his homework." and "He left home after he finished his homework." have the same meaning.

But, "He knew that my mother had been a nurse." could not be "He knew that my mother was a nurse." even if the order is obvious.
Right?

Thank you for your time.
Astro-D

 

[Tdol]

In the examples you give, the tense is important because there is nothing to indicate the order, so it is only through the tense that we can see whether she still works as a nurse or not. ;-)

 

[lucyarliwu]

In the examples you give, the tense is important because there is nothing to indicate the order, so it is only through the tense that we can see whether she still works as a nurse or not. ;-)

So I can also say it like the following,right?

"He knew that my mother is a nurse!"

 

[Tdol]

It's possible, but backshifting to 'was' is more natural. ;-)

 

[Astro-D]

Hi, tdol.

But, "He knew that my mother had been a nurse." could not be "He knew that my mother was a nurse." even if the order is obvious.
Right?

In the examples you give, the tense is important because there is nothing to indicate the order, so it is only through the tense that we can see whether she still works as a nurse or not.

I'm sorry for a lack of explanation. I tried to say,
When there is an adequate context and that he knew (at some point in the past) that your mother had been a nurse sometime before then is an obvious fact,
you native English speakers say "He knew that my mother was a nurse." instead of "He knew that my mother had been a nurse."?

Thank you for your time.
Astro-D :?:

 

[RonBee]

I'm sorry for a lack of explanation. I tried to say,
When there is an adequate context and that he knew (at some point in the past) that your mother had been a nurse sometime before then is an obvious fact,
you native English speakers say "He knew that my mother was a nurse." instead of "He knew that my mother had been a nurse."?

Not exactly. "He knew that my mother was a nurse" indicates his knowledge of her status (that she was a nurse) at the time he knew her. "He knew that my mother had been a nurse" indicates his knowedge of her previous status. (He knew that she had been a nurse.)

8)

 

[Astro-D]

Hi, RonBee.
I got it. Thank you for a reply.

And, thanks again, Lib, tdol, lucyarliwu.

 

[RonBee]

Hi, RonBee.
I got it. Thank you for a reply.

You're quite welcome.

(Say: "Thank you for your reply.")

And, thanks again, Lib, tdol, lucyarliwu.

It was a team effort, eh? :wink:

(Just kidding, of course. We are all glad to help.)

8)

 

[lucyarliwu]

And, thanks again, Lib, tdol, lucyarliwu.

You 're welcome,Astro-D!


Lucy in China

 

[Tdol]

Ditto. ;-)