How can I refer to a person from UK?

[ruziniu_yang]

For example, person from England is English, and Scotland is Scottish.
If I only know the person is from UK, how can refer to this person?

 

[Anglika]

British

 

[ruziniu_yang]

Thanks, Anglika!
What is making me confused now is if a person from Northern Ireland can also be called "British"?

 

[Tdol]

As many people in Northern Ireland are Republicans, who would like to see Northern Ireland independent of Britain, I would not use British.

 

[JJM Ballantyne]

A person in Northern Ireland is British by citizenship regardless of their political stance.

Some might consider themselves British only, some British and Irish and others Irish.

Some call themselves Ulstermen.

 

[ferrierd@shaw.ca]

It may help to keep in mind that the name of the country is "the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Island." This is of course too much of a mouthful to use in informal speech or writing, so most persons refer to the country as "the UK" or "Great Britain."

Citizens of the UK or Great Britain are called "British subjects." Hence, the correct adjective is "British." (Accepted slang terms: Brits, the Brits, a Brit.)

Some argue that the UK is an amalgam of separate units: Wales, England, Scotland, and Northern Ireland; and it is better to speak of the Welch, the English, the Scots (a Scot, adj. Scottish, but never scotch, a type of whiskey), and the Irish. However, that idea leaves us without a non-specific term for citizens of the UK.

 

[NearThere]

I'm learning new things on this forum everyday.

Great site. Thank you. :up::up:

 

[iconoclast]

Actually, on British passports today we are billed as 'British citizens', the EU having deemed 'British subject', i.e. subject of Her Majesty the Queen, to be a bit medieval. Technically, if I'm not mistaken, British sovereignty still lies not in the people but where it has long lain: in Parliament (or, more technically still, in the Queen in Parliament, or whatever the anachronistic expression is).

As to N. Ireland, where I happen to come from, I suppose everyone's technically a British citizen regardless of their politics, but as Tdol points out, it's a dodgy issue (let's not start on Scottish or Welsh nationalism, either). Luckily for N. Ireland Nationalists who wish not to have to travel on a British passport, the Republic of Ireland has long awarded Irish nationality to anyone who could prove they had a parent or grandparent born in pre-Partition Ireland (i.e. before 1922), or to anyone who had a parent who was already an Irish citizen - I believe they've tightened the rules a little recently, but you get the idea. So, a fair whack of N. Ireland's population today, including myself, are still entitled to an Irish passport should we wish, and presumably the Nationalists among us have been exercised their entitlement for years.

 

[Batfink]

Under the Good Friday Agreement of 1998, a citizen from the north of Ireland can be classed and class themselves as British or Irish, or both.

It is a political anomaly that people insist on classing us as British as the Act of Union of 1800 states quite clearly that Britain and Ireland are different:

they are hereby declared to be, the articles of the union of Great Britain and Ireland, and the same shall be in force and have effect for ever, from the first day of January, which shall be in the year of our Lord, one thousand eight hundred and one: provided that before that period an act shall have been passed by the parliament of Great Britain for carrying into effect, in the like manner, the said foregoing recited articles.

No matter.

 

[ferrierd@shaw.ca]

Under the Good Friday Agreement of 1998, a citizen from the north of Ireland can be classed and class themselves as British or Irish, or both.

It is a political anomaly that people insist on classing us as British as the Act of Union of 1800 states quite clearly that Britain and Ireland are different:

they are hereby declared to be, the articles of the union of Great Britain and Ireland, and the same shall be in force and have effect for ever, from the first day of January, which shall be in the year of our Lord, one thousand eight hundred and one: provided that before that period an act shall have been passed by the parliament of Great Britain for carrying into effect, in the like manner, the said foregoing recited articles.

No matter.

I stand corrected.
Persons born in Ireland are technically "Irish."
However, I also feel that persons born anywhere in the UK are UK citizens, and hence British.

 

[Batfink]

I stand corrected.
Persons born in Ireland are technically "Irish."
However, I also feel that persons born anywhere in the UK are UK citizens, and hence British.

If I was referred to as British by anyone, I would not be in the least annoyed that technically they are mistaken. It is a political and cultural anomaly and if people are really bothered then they can look at how the term is used and its effect via the Good Friday Agreement.

A lot of us have moved on from this and many use the UK reference in terms of international business, so don't "stand corrected"! If I started on the contradictions... Hehehehe...

Happy Paddy's day this weekend!!!

 

[iconoclast]

Batfink: I'm afraid I don't quite understand how your quote from the Act of Union shows Ireland to have been (constitutionally) different from Great Britain.

Happy St Patrick's Day to youse all, too.

 

[Batfink]

Batfink: I'm afraid I don't quite understand how your quote from the Act of Union shows Ireland to have been (constitutionally) different from Great Britain.

Happy St Patrick's Day to youse all, too.

Happy Paddy's Day to yousins!!!

They are separate entities in the forming of the Union. Therefore, it is not technically correct to say that the people in Northern Ireland are British. I am not Chinese because I live and work here.

PS The UK, Great Britain and Northern Ireland, is one of few countries not to have a written constitution. Hence, arguments (in a debating way) like this. That is why many of us hold credence in the Good Friday Agreement. It is the nearest thing to a constitution therefore invaluable in my self determination in regards to my citizenhood (if that is not a word, it should be).

 

[iconoclast]

As I understand it from my reading of Irish history, the Act of Union constitutionally merged the parliament of the Kingdom of Ireland, which had hitherto technically been independent (and had gotten too uppity), into that of the Kingdom of Great Britain, thereby creating the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, in much the same way as the 1707 Union of the English and Scottish Parliaments had created the Kingdom of Great Britain. As I pointed out previuosly, unless it's been changed, sovereignty still lies in the antiquated Parliament-plus-Crown set-up. Therefore, all subjects of His/Her Britannic Majesty in the UK were officially British subjects, which, for example, is presumably why the leaders of the Easter Uprising could be tried for wartime treason against the Crown, or why 19th-century coffin ships that America turned away could not be refused entry by Canada.

Whatever the truth of the matter, it wasn't really until the 20th century that ordinary folks ever started travelling in any great number and that people ever applied for a passport - and that increasing restrictions on international travel came into being. I just wonder what protocol authorities followed when dealing with 18-century Ulster-Scots escaping penalisation, or with 19th-century emigrants fleeing the Famine. If movies like 'The Godfather' are anything to go by, the "home" authorities seemed happy to get rid of you, and the American authorities gave you an austere but welcoming "come on on on in".

Hmmm. All this nationality business does complicate things today, doesn't it? That's why, when asked, I'm Irish when it suits me, and British when that suits me, too. But then, 1971 was the last time I ever lived in "Darkest Ulster" (as I then not very funnily called today's "Sunny Nornirn"), so what do I care! Nevertheless, on MArch 17th I be in our local "Irish bar", one of those identikit numbers sold all over that must be making a few boyos a euro or two. Slainte.

 

[ferrierd@shaw.ca]

In reply to Batfink, who said "I am not Chinese because I live and work here": rephrased , "Living and working in China does not make me Chinese." That is true, but being born in China does make one Chinese.

There seems to be a confusion between a person's statutory citizenship and the person's ethnicity. A person whose ethnic backgrounnd is Irish can be by birth a citizen of China. Likewise, a person whose ethnic background is Chinese can be by birth or naturalization a citizen of the UK.

I was born in Canada, so I was and am a Canadian citizen, but my own ethnic background is mixed. My mother's Mennonite forebears emigrated to the United States to escape religiious persecution in Europe. Later, they moved to Ontario, Canada with a group of United Empire Loyalists. Later, Mother's parents moved to Alberta, where my mother was born and later I was born. My father was born in Scotland, then emigrated to Canada, where he met and married my mother.

I have lived in Canada, the U.S., the UK, and New Zealand. I had emigrant status in New Zealand. When I was asked where I was from, I said "New Zealand," but nobody paid any attention to that.

 

[Batfink]

Slainte!!!

I entirely agree with the last two posts. I must add that words on a paper never the person make!

 

[JJM Ballantyne]

"My father was born in Scotland"

You do realize, of course, that this makes you a British citizen?

 

[JJM Ballantyne]

A person born in Northern Ireland is a British citizen regardless.

 

[Batfink]

A person born in Northern Ireland is a British citizen regardless.

"Regardless" of what? Of your stance? Well you are on your own as I can state (constitutionally) what I have posted and all you do is post in bold. Yawn... Here, I cite the Good Friday Agreement on the constitutional status of those born and living in the north of Ireland (I suggest you post something that you know about):


Irish Northern Aid, Inc./1998 Good Friday Agreement

(vi) recognise the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they may so choose, and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland.

;-)

 

[Tdol]

[quote=ferrierd@shaw.ca;264821]
There seems to be a confusion between a person's statutory citizenship and the person's ethnicity. A person whose ethnic backgrounnd is Irish can be by birth a citizen of China. Likewise, a person whose ethnic background is Chinese can be by birth or naturalization a citizen of the UK.
[/quote]

Not all countries extend statutory citizenship to anyone born there, do they?