I didn't move to Miami...

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Grablevskij

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Let's have a look at this sentence:

I didn't move to Miami to live in a Spanish-speaking province.

What does it mean?
1. It is a clause of porpuse and means that I didn't move to Miami where I would live in a Spanish-speaking place. In order not to live in a Spanish-speaking province.

2. The infinitive is used as an adverbial modifier of attendand circumstances.
I didn't move to Miamy and stayed in a Spanish-spesking province.

3. Both the cases are possble depending on context.

Michael
 

David L.

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The sentence has a hint of sarcasm.
The writer may have moved to Florida for the warmer climate. However, what he found was that, with such a large proportion of the population being emigrees from Spanish-speaking countries (Puerto Rico, a USA protectorate, is practically just off the coast) it feels to him like he's moved to a part of a foreign country where the language and culture are different to what he's familiar with- and that was definitely not what he had in mind! It's like he's no longer in the real ' good ol' USA'.
 
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Grablevskij

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Let us suppose it is not a Miamy but, say, a town of Urupinsk. That is let us remove any geographic hints and keep only a linguistic task. So, which case is your favorite?

Michael
 

David L.

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I didn't move to Miami in order to live in a Spanish-speaking province.

Correct.
2 is not.
 

Grablevskij

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I feel dizzy. My number two was "in order not to live".
In fact you just write the initial sentence once more. We can add "in order" or omit it without changing the meaning.

About number two.
Some more examples of adverbial modifiers of attendand circumstances:
She woke up to see that the sun was shining.
(=She woke up and saw that the sun was shining).

At the age of forty-five he resigned never to return to publec life.
(=At the age of forty-five he resigned and never returned to publec life).

So, why our sentence can't be like this?

Michael
 

Grablevskij

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And one more thing.
Am I in Miami or am I not?

I have understood that in order not to live in a Spanish-speaking province, I left where I was (case 1).

If I have moved house to Miamy, I would say: "I moved to Miami not to live in a Spanish-speaking province". So, I am angry with all those Spaniards. Or this would mean that I lived in among Spanish-speakng people? This is difficult case.

And case 2 for me is also Ok. Why not.

Michael
 

David L.

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OK, so sentence 1 is:
I didn't move to Miami in order not to live in a Spanish-speaking province.

You have changed the meaning of the sentence by adding 'not'. This sentence now means: (a) either, I now live in Miami because I moved here, or (b) I moved to Miami and then left because I was unhappy, and I am telling somebody about why I decided to leave Miami after taking all the trouble to move there in the first place
I moved to Miami (or moved here and then left to go somewhere else) because I understood that Miami was like a Spanish-speaking province in the USA. That is not what I found to be the case when I moved here and I am unhappy about it. I did not move to Miami so that I would be with ordinary English speaking people - I wanted to live among Spanish-speaking people, almost like being in a real Spanish province.

She woke up to see that the sun was shining.
(=She woke up and saw that the sun was shining).
Correct

At the age of forty-five he resigned, never to return to public life.
(=At the age of forty-five he resigned and never returned to public life).

Correct.

So, why our sentence can't be like this?
You are indicating 'like the sentences that I've just quoted above, about the 'sun' and about 'resigning'. I don't understand what you mean. Can you write the sentence like those sentences so I can see what you mean?
 

Grablevskij

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I meant the case 2.
I didn't move to Miamy and continue living in a Spanish-speking province as usual.

I focus my attention on "didn't move" and at once imagine that I really didn't move from my old place.
This construction turned out not to be so simple as it seemed to be.

Michael
 

riverkid

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Let's have a look at this sentence:



Sometimes, it makes me wonder why a certain structure causes a student problems with comprehension. I think that it may be mother tongue interference. What's a logical structure in English or Russian or Japanese could directly translate to a confusing statement in the target language.

[David may have covered this, so forgive me if I go over the same things but I thought it best to try first from my own perspective instead of trying to figure out what David discussed]

Let me try this with another example, Michael.

riverkid: Michael, go to the store and get two liters of milk.

Michael: Okay, give me some money.

[Michael goes to the store and gets two liters of beer.

riverkid: I didn't send you to the store to get beer!

OR

You didn't go to the store to get beer.

You, that's Michael, actually went to the store to get, ie. for the purpose of getting milk. You didn't go to the store to get beer.


I didn't move to Miami to live in a Spanish-speaking province.

It means, "I moved to Miami for certain unmentioned reasons" The sarcasm that David mentioned is highlighted by using the negative, "I didn't move to Miami". Having moved to Miami, the speaker found that Spanish was used a lot, it was like living in a province in Spain.

It can be paraphrased or explained as,

I didn't move to Miami to live in what seems like a province of Spain.

I didn't move to Miami for the purpose of living in what seems like a province of Spain.

For all the reasons I moved to Miami, living in what seems to be Spanish speaking province wasn't one of them.

I don't know what,

"adverbial modifier of attendand circumstances"

means, Michael, so I'll leave it at this for now and see how you're faring with my explanation.


What does it mean?
1. It is a clause of purpose and means that I didn't move to Miami where I would live in a Spanish-speaking place. In order not to live in a Spanish-speaking province.

2. The infinitive is used as an adverbial modifier of attendand circumstances.
I didn't move to Miami and stayed in a Spanish-speaking province.

3. Both the cases are possible depending on context.

Michael

##
 

Grablevskij

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Thank you, Riverkid and David.
Thanks to you I start to understand something.
Or maybe not.

You didn't go to the store to get beer.

Without any context can't it mean that you wanted to buy some beer but was too lazy and just stayed at home?

Michael
 

riverkid

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I think it would have helped to get the meaning of this structure across better if I had mentioned that,

The sarcasm that David mentioned is highlighted by using the negative, and the negative is often said sneeringly and/or emphasized in some manner,

"I DIDn't move to Miami" to ... .

sneer
verb [I or T]
to talk about or look at someone or something in an unkind way that shows you do not respect or approve of them:
You may sneer, but a lot of people like this kind of music.
She'll probably sneer at my new shoes because they're not expensive.
[+ speech] "Is that the best you can do?" he sneered.

Cambridge Dictionaries Online - Cambridge University Press
 

riverkid

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Thank you, Riverkid and David.
Thanks to you I start to understand something.
Or maybe not.

You didn't go to the store to get beer.

Without any context can't it mean that you wanted to buy some beer but was too lazy and just stayed at home?

Michael

Who is the 'you' that I put in bold and 'redded', Michael? Can you create a little dialogue to show the context better.
 

Grablevskij

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A enters the flat and sees B watching TV with his feet on the table.
A opens the frige to realise that there is no beer in the house though they wanted to drink a little tonight.

"You didn't go to the store to get some beer".
"I was too busy to go".




Michael
 

riverkid

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A enters the flat and sees B watching TV with his feet on the table.
A opens the fridge [to] and realizes that there is no beer in the house though they wanted to drink a little tonight.

A: "You didn't go to the store to get some beer".
B: "I was too busy to go".

Michael


Now I see where you're going. Yes, that's a possible interpretation for this situation, Michael. In that vein, let's look at your initial one once more.


Let's have a look at this sentence:

I didn't move to Miami to live in a Spanish-speaking province.

What does it mean?

1. It is a clause of purpose and means that I didn't move to Miami where I would end up living in a Spanish-speaking place. In order not to live in a Spanish-speaking province.

Notice that I've changed your wording to what I think you mean, in other words, into a wording that allows me to think I understand what you mean.

I can't see the meaning that is of the same nature as your beer example scenario. But that doesn't mean it isn't there. I may just be frozen on one path.

If there was no move to Miami, and you wanted to state the meaning above,

I didn't move to Miami because then I would have had to live in [what the speaker feels is] a Spanish speaking province.

OR

I didn't move to Miami because I didn't want to live in [what the speaker feels is] a Spanish speaking province.



2. The infinitive is used as an adverbial modifier of attendand circumstances.

"I didn't move to Miami and stayed in a Spanish-speaking province."

I also don't see any way that it could hold the meaning in 2. above.

3. Both the cases are possble depending on context.

Michael

All this leaves us, me, [HELP!] to discern the difference between the beer scenario and the Miami one. I think I need to take a step back and come at this from a different angle. Maybe it's something that's easy as pie, a cakewalk, like falling off a log, ...

Time to regroup. :)
 

Grablevskij

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A opens the fridge [to] and realizes that there is no beer in the house though they wanted to drink a little tonight.

Doesn't "to realise" mean "and realises"? For me it is the same. Sorry to ask you, but I'm now studying the infinitive and everything is very important for me.

Michael
 

stuartnz

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Let's have a look at this sentence:

I didn't move to Miami to live in a Spanish-speaking province.

What does it mean?

I'm not a teacher, but having the whole thread, I'm going to give my understanding of this phrase. It's a structure I hear quite often.

I understand this to be saying that "the reason I moved to Miami was (sunshine, oranges, cocaine, the opportunity to murder foreign tourists, etc.;-)) NOT to live in a Spanish-speaking province." A parallel example from my own experience might help.

A Punjabi friend of mine has little to do with other Punjabis here in my town. Partly this is because he is Hindu, and most Punjabis here are Sikh. Part of the reason, though, is that he moved to NZ to get away from certain elements and practices of his Punjabi culture. So when asked why he avoids close interaction with our town's very large Punjabi community he might say, "I did not move 10,000 kilometres to live in a mini-Punjab. I moved to make a new life for my family."

The way I read the sentence you quoted, it would be especially understandable if said by someone who was themselves Spanish-speaking or had a strong aversion to Spanish-speaking people. In those situations, the irony of moving to a place renowned for its large Spanish-speaking population makes the snide defensive tone of the comment understandable. It's as if the speaker is saying "I know it's hard to believe seeing that this place IS a Spanish-speaking colony, but the fact is, that was NOT my reason for coming. I had other reasons, such as, ..."
 

David L.

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The sentence implies that either, I asked you to go to the store and you didn't go, because there's no beer in the fridge - why he didn't go to the store we do not know.
or, that he had told me he was going to go to the store; I note that there's no beer in the fridge, and so by saying, "You didn't go to the store..." I am in effect expecting a reply that will tell me why he didn't go.
 

riverkid

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A opens the fridge [to] and realizes that there is no beer in the house though they wanted to drink a little tonight.

Doesn't "to realise" mean "and realises"? For me it is the same. Sorry to ask you, but I'm now studying the infinitive and everything is very important for me.

Michael

The discussion on this "side issue" has been moved to a new thread, entitled,

Moved from - I didn't move to Miami thread

https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/...ed-i-didn-t-move-miami-thread.html#post266556
 

riverkid

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Let me throw out a theory, one I'm running thru the mill. Is it really this simple? David probably already covered this in his replies.

I didn't move to Miami to live in a Spanish-speaking province.

An infinitive of purpose has to relate to the action in question; it can't raise a proposition that doesn't have a semantic connection to the information that precedes it.

I didn't move to Miami --->> to live in a Spanish-speaking province.
--Michael's negative-- ------Michael's positive---------
---proposition------- -------- result ------------------

"Michael's negative" is an actual negative which means, "I actually didn't move to Miami".

[the original "negative" isn't a real negative semantically or grammatically ?? In the original, "I didn't move to Miami" actually entails that "I did move to Miami"]

But "Michael's positive", which means "so I stayed in the Spanish speaking province", doesn't connect semantically [and therefore, it can't connect grammatically??] to his negative proposition.

Let's create some examples which seem to follow the "rule", in purple, above.

1. I stayed away from Miami to live in a [real] Spanish speaking province.

2. I refused the move to Miami to live in a [real] Spanish speaking province.

Now, in 1 & 2, there is a semantic connection between the underlined "positives" and the, in bold, infinitives of purpose.

{To one and all; please feel free to critique/question any portion of my theory.}
 
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Grablevskij

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Thank you.

Michael
 
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