I would be surprised if he turns up/turned up

jutfrank

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So, there is no difference between "If Manchester United win today, they climb to third" and "If Manchester United win today, they will climb to third" when used to make a prediction, isn't there?
Yes, these two sentences are different. The first is not a prediction but a statement of fact. It's simply saying that three more points puts them in third place in the table.
I want to make a prediction for a game taking place today.

Then say this:

Manchester United will win.

The use of will shows that this is a prediction.
 

Kontol

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When making a prediction, is it possible to say this sentence before the game begins, jutfrank?

If Man Utd won today, they would climb to third.
 

jutfrank

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When making a prediction, is it possible to say this sentence before the game begins, jutfrank?

If Man Utd won today, they would climb to third.
That's not a prediction, Kontol.

Tell us exactly what you want to say and why you want to say it.
 

Kontol

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That's not a prediction, Kontol.

Tell us exactly what you want to say and why you want to say it.
For example, there is a match between Man Utd vs Crystal Palace today at 14:00, before the match begins, I'm going to say the following sentence as an assumption.

If Manchester United won today, they would leapfrog West Ham.

Is my understanding right?
 

5jj

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That's not an assumption.
 

5jj

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Kontol

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Thank you. In what situation should I use my sentence? I'm a bit confused because I want to say it before the match

If Manchester United won today, they would leapfrog West Ham
 

5jj

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We keep giving similar answers in several of your threads. Kontol. You don't appear to be taking them in.

If Manchester United win today, they will leapfrog West Ham. The speaker sees the win as a real possibility.
If Manchester United won today, they would leapfrog West Ham. The speaker sees the win as a more hypothetical, or unreal, possibility.

In what situation should I use my sentence? I'm a bit confused because I want to say it before the match
As jutfrank has suggested elsewhere, you should be thinking about the situation you want to talk about, not about situations in which you can use certain words.
 

Kontol

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If Manchester United win today, they will leapfrog West Ham. The speaker sees the win as a real possibility.
If Manchester United won today, they would leapfrog West Ham. The speaker sees the win as a more hypothetical, or unreal, possibility
So when we're talking about a real situation, it's not appropriate to use the form "if + past, would", right? Because the game is real, we use the form "if + present, will"? What do you think I'm correct?
 

5jj

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If Manchester United win today, they will leapfrog West Ham. The speaker sees the win as a real possibility.
If Manchester United won today, they would leapfrog West Ham. The speaker sees the win as a more hypothetical, or unreal, possibility.
So when we're talking about a real situation, it's not appropriate to use the form "if + past, would", right? Because the game is real, we use the form "if + present, will"? What do you think I'm correct?
I am not sure if you have completely understood. In the first of my two sentences, it is the possibility of a win for Manchester United that is real, i.e., the speaker thinks that such a win is possible. The match itself, being in the future, is not actually 'real' until it happens.

The future happening of the match is just as real (or unreal) in the second. It is the possibility of a win for Manchester United that is seen by the speaker as more hypothetical.
 

Kontol

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Yes, I don't fully understand about this difference. It's difficult and confusing. Could you tell me what the meaning of "hypothetical" in this case is? I'm trying my best to grasp this.
 

Kontol

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I'm sure this is exactly what jutfrank has explained.

If Man Utd win today, they will leapfrog West Ham. This is said by a United fan.
If Man Utd won today, they would leapfrog West Ham. This is said by a journalist
 

5jj

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If Man Utd win today, they will leapfrog West Ham. This is said by a United fan.
If Man Utd won today, they would leapfrog West Ham. This is said by a journalist
I am sure jutfrank did not simply make the statements I have put in bold without some word of explanation.
 

5jj

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Could you tell me what the meaning of "hypothetical" in this case is? I'm trying my best to grasp this.
A hypothetical situation is one that is presented as supposed, imagined, possible. It is not necessarily real or true.
 

Tdol

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How do you see Man Utd's chances of winning?
 
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