ink pen or fountain pen?

[heidita]

This question came up today : fountain pen or ink pen?

I thought or friend Shal meant a ball pen, as it is also filled with ink, isn't it? As to her opinion, she said a "fountain pen" is called an ink pen in India.

I only knew the word fountain pen for that sooooo old fashioned kind of pen, which I am sure I am the only one left to use.:shock:

Can you interchange the words?

cheers from Spain!!

 

[susiedqq]

Yes, they are interchangeable.

Pens are just pens.

 

[heidita]

Well, not the same though a fountain pen to a ball pen.

I don't think pens are just pens at all!!! A fountain pen gives you a certain kind of ...character?

 

[susiedqq]

Oh, yes. The writing seems much more personal.

They are rarely used in the US. perhaps because the ink tends to smear or fade.

Most folks here use regular click pens. (ink pens)

Collectors of fountain pens are seeing a big interest in fountain pens and an increase in prices.

 

[heidita]

Oh, so you say "click pen"?

I don't know, is that known and used in Britain too?

 

[BobK]

Oh, so you say "click pen"?

I don't know, is that known and used in Britain too?

I haven't heard that phrase in Br English (although I'd understand it if someone said it - presumably it's a retractable ball-pen that clicks when you operate the mechanism). There's a huge range of words we use, and makers keep thinking up new ones. There's the trade-name Biro (pronounced /'baırəʊ/) - used as a generic term, much to the annoyance of the makers), Bic (also a trade-name, generally not used so loosely, but sometimes...), ball-pen, roller-ball (another trade-name I think), felt-tip (the sort with a FT), fine-liner; there's a new sort called a gel pen, filled with some kind of gel.

Fountain pens are still sold, and you can even get disposable ones. For added convenience (no filling from an ink bottle) you can get a thing called a 'cartridge pen' - which has liquid ink like a fountain pen but is refilled via little plastic cartridges which - when they work (!) - just push in (and the pushing in breaks a seal).

b

 

[Ouisch]

This happens to be one of my pet peeves... My husband always says "ink pen," instead of just "pen" (a pen, by definition, uses ink). Terms like "click pen" are regional slang. If you're going to be specific and say anything other than simply "pen," then the proper terms are either ball-point pen or fountain pen. A ball-point has a self-contained ink supply and a particuar type of rolling tip, while a typical fountain pen has a "nib" and must be dipped into an ink supply.

 

[shalstudent]

Thanks Heidi, for posting the question and thanks for the response to the moderators and to susiedqq.

 

[RedMtl]

This happens to be one of my pet peeves... My husband always says "ink pen," instead of just "pen" (a pen, by definition, uses ink). Terms like "click pen" are regional slang. If you're going to be specific and say anything other than simply "pen," then the proper terms are either ball-point pen or fountain pen. A ball-point has a self-contained ink supply and a particuar type of rolling tip, while a typical fountain pen has a "nib" and must be dipped into an ink supply.

I do my best to avoid adding controversial posts, however I cannot let this one pass. :crazyeye:

As a calligrapher, I must strongly disagree with the comment by susiedqq who stated that "pens are just pens." They are, most assuredly, not so simply defined.

This said, the question here derives from the initial post: "Fountain pen or ink pen." To me, these would be the same thing -- in that neither would suggest to me a ball-point pen, a felt pen, a roller ball or something other than a pen which used infused or dipped ink.

My mother is not a calligrapher, and even she would not think of an "ink pen" or a "fountain pen" as something other than a free-flowing nib. She is very specific with regard pens, asking for a ball-point or something else, depending on her desires and needs.

I do agree that a pen by definition uses ink -- and as such is clearly different from pencil, chalk, crayon or another tool for writing/drawing.

So, fountain pen is to my thinking very specific.

Ink pen is redundant. All pens use ink.

Some modern "fountain" pens do have cartridges. I do use them -- if I'm travelling, or in a pinch. Otherwise, I use (for calligraphy) a "dip" pen. This uses free flowing ink, is dipped into a pot, and has nothing resembling the reservoir a common "fountain pen" would have.

Methinks this thread will have so many differing opinions that one might be wise to desist! :lol::roll:

 

[heidita]

This happens to be one of my pet peeves...

:-? Interesting expression, Quosch, what does it mean?

then the proper terms are either ball-point pen or fountain pen.

This is precisely what I meant: does everybody agree on this?:shock: I mean, is this more of a personal opinion or does everybody here believe a fountain pen is just like any other pen?

I certainly do not. A fountain pen not only has "flowing ink" or cartridges, but it also has a completely different tip, namely a feather (I don't know if you call this feather, I am translating).

A ball pen, click pen or pen simply, has a ball or something similar at the tip and should therefore not be called a simple pen.

Thanks Heidi, for posting the question and thanks for the response to the moderators and to susiedqq.

There you are, look at this mess!:roll: I was completely sure a fountain pen was sooo different from a ball pen, now everybody seems to agree on the fact : a pen is jsut a pen. Terrible!!:2gunfire::lol:

As a calligrapher, I must strongly disagree with the comment by susiedqq who stated that "pens are just pens." They are, most assuredly, not so simply defined.

Well, I am glad somebody else thinks so.

This said, the question here derives from the initial post: "Fountain pen or ink pen." To me, these would be the same thing -- in that neither would suggest to me a ball-point pen, a felt pen, a roller ball or something other than a pen which used infused or dipped ink.

Quite so, badly expressed. Our friend Shal, please correct me if I am wrong, meant "ball pen" when she said "ink pen". I would not have thought that one said ink pen at all, as all pens have ink, like Quisch already said.
.

So, fountain pen is to my thinking very specific.

That's what I thought, but almost everybody said the opposite.

Methinks this thread will have so many differing opinions that one might be wise to desist! :lol::roll:

Methinks so , too. But I don't think I will wise.....:lol:

 

[BobK]

...
I certainly do not. A fountain pen not only has "flowing ink" or cartridges, but it also has a completely different tip, namely a feather (I don't know if you call this feather, I am translating).

...

I'll stay out of the controversy (there is an interesting phrasal verb that comes to mind: "to wimp out" ;-)), but you may be interested to know that our word "pen" is related etymologically to the Latin pinna, meaning "feather" (not derived, but sharing the same Indo-European background). The only words I can think of off the top of my head that are so derived are 'pinnace' (a vaguely feather-shaped sailing boat) and 'pinnate' (a botanical word used to describe feather-shaped leaves).

b

 

[heidita]

Very interesting, Bob. So it IS a feather then!! In German and Spanish we say feather.

Well, and now....I couldn't find wimp out.

Hmmmmmm

 

[BobK]

Well I've only heard the expression 'wimp out' a few times (very few), and I'd be surprised if it's in any dictionary yet. But the noun "wimp" [slang, = a coward, someone who isn't brave) may be. 'To wimp out' is to pull out (stop doing something) because of not being brave enough: "I could have overtaken him on that bend, but there was so much traffic that I wimped out".

b

 

[Ouisch]

:-? Interesting expression, Quosch, what does it mean?

A pet peeve is a particular thing, habit, idea, etc, that really, really irritates a person. Quite often something that is a "pet peeve" of one person wouldn't bother another person in the least.

For example, a friend of mine (who is also a teacher) literally clenches his fists and winces with pain when he hears someone say "snuck" instead of "sneaked." Such a grammar faux pas wouldn't annoy most people, but it is one of my friend's pet peeves - it is like nails on a chalkboard to him.

 

[BobK]

A pet peeve is a particular thing, habit, idea, etc, that really, really irritates a person. Quite often something that is a "pet peeve" of one person wouldn't bother another person in the least.

For example, a friend of mine (who is also a teacher) literally clenches his fists and winces with pain when he hears someone say "snuck" instead of "sneaked." Such a grammar faux pas wouldn't annoy most people, but it is one of my friend's pet peeves - it is like nails on a chalkboard to him.

Further info: this adjectival use of 'pet' is most common in collocations like this and 'pet hate' (something a person particularly dislikes); also 'pet project' (a project someone is particularly interested in). It was made into a trade name in the US a while ago (I don't know if they're still available, or if they've gone the same way as the 'gonk*' in sixties Britain) in the form of the 'pet rock' - a pebble that was useless, but was the owner's obsession - http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn...ithsully.com/blog/uploaded_images/6417112.jpg. (I had an American manager who used the term 'pet rock' as a figure of speech - to mean a useless project that a business person devoted a lot of time, money and resources to: the annoying little animated paper clip in WinWord began life as a 'pet rock' like this, an online Windows help assistant called 'Bob'; I'm quite glad he had such a short life, for some reason ;-). I don't know whether this figure of speech ever became idiomatic in American English, or whether it was this manager's pet idiom.)

* A 'gonk' was a stuffed toy, representing an intelligent animal of some unknown species. Very fashionable once. http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn.../www.lynpaulwebsite.org/Resources/Gonk300.jpg

b

 

[heidita]

to mean a useless project that a business person devoted a lot of time, money and resources to: b

...which reminds me of a very annoying toy, a virtual dog. It was a little machine, beeper like size which drove me mad . ALL my students had one. such a stupid thing to have. You had to feed the dog, go for a walk...all that time wasted on such a stupid thing! And all the time peeping. Jesus!

Something similar to this:


GAME THEORY; Putting a Virtual Doggy in Your Window - New York Times

 

[BobK]

PS to earlier post (re pinna). There's also the more common derivative 'pinnacle'. Here are just a few of BNC's 219 hits:

1 CH3 . Tyson, the man who rose from the ghettos of New York to the pinnacle of boxing success, had his world destroyed when he was judged guilty of violating
2 CH5 . His ever-so-proper role as financial consultant to the Duchess of York marked the pinnacle of his climb up the social ladder. And with just one strong hand on
3 CH7 fantastic day for me. It's everything I've hoped for --; the pinnacle and the most exciting day of my life." But it nearly was not
4 A0C CHOICE Hotels International has opened its first hotel in Thailand, the Quality Hotel Pinnacle in Bangkok. The newly constructed 166-bedroom hotel is situated in the business district and
5 ALL along. There were at least two miles to go. In the distance the pinnacle of the Monument, its golden figure of Winged Victory hovering impatiently over the autumn
6 ANB the first city telegraph! Later again, it was demolished altogether. A pinnacle on the facade of the church of San Calimero Inside the church, fixed in front of
7 ARB they now nursed fair-haired, olive-skinned babies and hung their washing-lines from one eroded pinnacle to another. Another day I went into the Siq when the sun was setting
8 AS3 avoid scrambling, and will also be obliged to dangle once on the Inaccessible Pinnacle on Skye. There's noticeably less equipment hanging from a scrambler, but pound
9 AS3 Hotel. You are on a mountain." Or one on top of the Inaccessible Pinnacle on Skye urgently declaring, "WARNING! This is not the way to the
10 ASV for another beautiful woman." The water shot stood as the quintessence and pinnacle of the photographer's art. Don King was famous for swimming one-armed into the
11 AT6 weekly club races to national series events or even international championships. The very pinnacle of the sport is the Olympic Games and the world professional circuit. The Divisions
12 B0L a Cup victory and then to a record Championship, Chapman was at the pinnacle of his career. Success, of course, brings new problems and with Arsenal at
13 BP6 West St); Langport (Whatley car park); Martock (The Pinnacle ); Milborne Port (London Rd); Somerton (Cox's Yard car
14 CCP figure was spotted again moving out of sight on the small col below the second pinnacle . It was the last time that they were ever seen alive. Like the
15 CCP two men died. However, the location of a body near the second pinnacle , suggests that whatever separated them --; a fall, oedema, sheer exhaustion --;
16 CCP obvious cornice. Right: Boardman, Tasker and Dick Renshaw on the first pinnacle (photos Chris Bonington). Simpson and the water people "WHAT worried me
17 CCP used. Left: A delighted Graham Little on the summit of a sandstone pinnacle in Adrspach (photo Tom Prentice). Right: Sue Grimley making an exposed
18 CCP (Twid) Turner had added a long (65m) pitch on The Pinnacle , Cloggy. Taking a line between Margins Of The Mind and Psyco Killer,
19 CJH . An impressive feature of the cliffs is the Great Stack, a detached pinnacle of sandstone which, incredibly, has been ascended to its flat top by rock-climbers
20 CJH by cliffs; from the east, it takes the shape of a slender pinnacle . In fact, these are the two extremities of a mile-long ridge. The
....
More at [Davies/BYU] BYU-BNC: British National Corpus , and enter the search string 'pinnacle'.