it is you who...

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banderas

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Dear techers,
I am in doubt again:-?
it is you who decide about....
it is you who decides about...

Which option is... sounds(perhaps instead of "corrrect" I should use "sounds better";-)) to your ears and why?
Thank you.
 

Batfink

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Dear techers,
I am in doubt again:-?
it is you who decide about....
it is you who decides about...

Which option is... sounds(perhaps instead of "corrrect" I should use "sounds better";-)) to your ears and why?
Thank you.


It does not "sound" right because "it" is the subjective pronoun and "you" is the objective pronoun. Ah, nothing like an empty "it" to get the heads rolling.
 

stuartnz

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I'm not a teacher, so I can't speak to which is more correct, but I would definitely say and hear "It is you who decides".
 

banderas

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It does not "sound" right because "it" is the subjective pronoun and "you" is the objective pronoun. Ah, nothing like an empty "it" to get the heads rolling.

Could you go into more details about that, please?
either is wrong because of "it is you"
what about "decide" or "decides"?
cheers
 

Batfink

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Could you go into more details about that, please?
either is wrong because of "it is you"
what about "decide" or "decides"?
cheers

I am sorry but I wanted you to work out what I meant by objective and subjective. Okay, here goes.

Nominative (or subjective) Case Pronouns are used as subjects and predicate nominatives. The nominative case pronouns are I, he, she, it, we, they, and who... For the pronoun to be a predicate nominative, the verb must be LINKING. The verb in your example is, er, "is". In your sentence you have the word "who" which is related to the main subject "it", therefore you must use "decides".

Objective Case Pronouns are used as direct objects, indirect objects, and objects of the preposition. These objective case pronouns are you, me, him, her, you, us, them, and whom...

Is that better? Put it into a question: "who decides?"
 
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stuartnz

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I got thoroughly confused by "In your sentence you have the word "who" which is related to the main subject "it", therefore you must use "decide"."

and tried playing with the word order. I would say, "you decide", but I would say "it is you who decides" or "you are the one who decides" It may be contradictory from a confessed descriptivist, but "
"it is you who decide" just sounds wrong to me.
 

banderas

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Nominative (or subjective) Case Pronouns are used as subjects and predicate nominatives. The nominative case pronouns are I, he, she, it, we, they, and who... For the pronoun to be a predicate nominative, the verb must be LINKING. The verb in your example is, er, "is". In your sentence you have the word "who" which is related to the main subject "it", therefore you must use "decide". It is clear now, thank you:). If so, why 9 out of 10 natives say "it is you who decides"? Can I compare this language situation to "It is I" and "It is me" where "It is me"predominates although "It is I" is perfectly correct?
Or perhaps to froms "I am good" and "I am well" where "I am good" is used overhemingly by native speakers as an answer to "how are you"

The most difficult thing in learnig English is the fact that English is changing so quickly that the connent of grammar books becomes simply irrelevant. I have no problem with this as it indicates that the language is alive and active. It makes English interesting but what I am supposed to say to my students?
Learn what grammar says but take into account that it might be irrelevant or even invalid?:shock:


Objective Case Pronouns are used as direct objects, indirect objects, and objects of the preposition. These objective case pronouns are you, me, him, her, you, us, them, and whom...

Is that better? Yes, that's better now. Put it into a question: "who decides?"

here "who" might be any one, some one, every one, no one (so always third person with linking verb ending with-s), right?:-D I am lloking forward to hearing from you again.
 

Batfink

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I got thoroughly confused by "In your sentence you have the word "who" which is related to the main subject "it", therefore you must use "decide"."

and tried playing with the word order. I would say, "you decide", but I would say "it is you who decides" or "you are the one who decides" It may be contradictory from a confessed descriptivist, but "
"it is you who decide" just sounds wrong to me.


Okay. What type of word is "who" and how is the word used? When you learn that then you will not be so confused.
 

banderas

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I got thoroughly confused by "In your sentence you have the word "who" which is related to the main subject "it", therefore you must use "decide"."

and tried playing with the word order. I would say, "you decide", but I would say "it is you who decides" or "you are the one who decides" It may be contradictory from a confessed descriptivist, but ""it is you who decide" just sounds wrong to me.

Batfink, Stuart's comment is that I meant. "it is you who decide" is correct but sounds unnatural to 9 out of 10 natives. Why?:shock:
 

stuartnz

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Batfink, Stuart's comment is that I meant. "it is you who decide" is correct but sounds unnatural to 9 out of 10 natives. Why?:shock:


I don't think the key pronoun here is "you". I think the pronoun the verb has to agree with is "it". If I replace "you" with "I", the result is the same. "It is I who decides or "I am the one who decides. I hope a teacher can come along and clear this mess up.
 

Batfink

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Batfink, Stuart's comment is that I meant. "it is you who decide" is correct but sounds unnatural to 9 out of 10 natives. Why?:shock:

It is not correct and I would like to meet the one native speaker who would say otherwise.

Who/you are dependent on the subject of the sentence. The subject is "it". Therefore, "decides" is correct. Start learning about dependent and independent clauses; relative/subordinate pronouns et cetera.
 

stuartnz

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The subject is "it". Therefore, "decides" is correct.

But in your earlier post your said, "you must you use "decide". What's changed?
 

Batfink

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I don't think the key pronoun here is "you". I think the pronoun the verb has to agree with is "it". If I replace "you" with "I", the result is the same. "It is I who decides or "I am the one who decides. I hope a teacher can come along and clear this mess up.

"who" is related to "it" (relative pronoun).

"it" is the subject of the sentence, not "you".
 

Batfink

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But in your earlier post your said, "you must you use "decide". What's changed?


I did indeed, apologies. Oops! I type too fast! And do not preview my posts!

I have edited the mistake and again, apologies!!! :-(
 

stuartnz

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I did indeed, apologies. Oops! I type too fast! And do not preview my posts!

I have edited the mistake and again, apologies!!! :-(


Thank you! That's why I was confused. :-D:lol:
 

Batfink

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Thank you! That's why I was confused. :-D:lol:

Thanks. If you look at my first post you can see that I foresaw the difficulty in explaining what is referred to (in the Cambridge Advanced English book) as the "empty it". Consider "it is cold". Well what is cold? The weather is cold. "It rains a lot in Derry". What is "it"?

I always ask my more advanced students the last question. "It" drives them crazy!

To define "it" is tricky. But here, "it" is used as an anticipatory subject to make the phrase / sentence more eloquent or suspenseful, to shift emphasis.

"It" is certainly tricky for a student to learn.
 

banderas

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I did indeed, apologies. Oops! I type too fast! And do not preview my posts!

I have edited the mistake and again, apologies!!! :-(

good, we found the real subject, but I am still confused about "I am good" instead of "I am well" when asking "how are you"?
 

Batfink

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good, we found the real subject, but I am still confused about "I am good" instead of "I am well" when asking "how are you"?

Yes, this can be confusing for students. Good is most commonly used as an adjective to describe nouns and pronouns, as in these examples:

She is a good student.

That is a good question.

The word well would be wrong in these two example sentences because it is an adverb. However as you see in your example, well is a predicate adjective describing the pronoun "I".



It is an exception to the rule.
 

banderas

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"who" is related to "it" (relative pronoun).

"it" is the subject of the sentence, not "you".

how about " it is people who make a difference to the comunity"?

if "it" is the subject of the sentece and not " people", then it should be " it is people who makes the difference to the comunity".
My logic is: people make the difference so it is people who make it.

it is you who decide about....
you decide about..., so it is you who decide about....

perhaps I should leave it but...I remember reading some newspaper and come across (I am sure 100%) "it is people who make..." Could any one comment on it, please?
 

Batfink

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how about " it is people who make a difference to the comunity"?

if "it" is the subject of the sentece and not " people", then it should be " it is people who makes the difference to the comunity".
My logic is: people make the difference so it is people who make it.

it is you who decide about....
you decide about..., so it is you who decide about....

perhaps I should leave it but...I remember reading some newspaper and come across (I am sure 100%) "it is people who make..." Could any one comment on it, please?

I can 'hear' that one. It is idiomatic then and not grammatically correct. Personally, and honestly, I would use makes. Maybe someone could take the baton and run with you now?

Newspapers reflect more and more the language in use at a given time.
 
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