messager/messenger

[AUTOMOON]

Hi, everyone
Thanks for your viewing my message, which is concerned the words " messenger".
As we know, we have messenger as the carrier of messages in English.
I am just wondering, why do those ancestors prefer messenger rather than the simple messager?
Certainly there is something to do with the oringin of the messenger, could you give me a explanation?
Thanks.

 

[Casiopea]

As we know, we have messenger as the carrier of messages in English.
I am just wondering, why do those ancestors prefer messenger rather than the simple messager? Certainly there is something to do with the origin of the messenger, could you give me an explanation? Thanks.

Messenger was originally messager, with parasitic -n- inserted 13c. for no apparent reason except that people liked to say it that way (cf. passenger, harbinger, scavenger).

www.etymoline.com

 

[Tdol]

You live and learn. Well, I do because I have so much to learn. ;-)

 

[AUTOMOON]

:arrow:

Thanks for your recommendations.

But I just want to explorer more about this word, probably there
is something about its oringin, which is interesting, right?
Then according to what you posted, this is a hard subject.


P.S. An American told me once, he just knew it is from French.

 

[Casiopea]

Re: :arrow:

Thanks for your recommendations.

But I just want to explorer more about this word, probably there
is something about its oringin, which is interesting, right?
Then according to what you posted, this is a hard subject.

P.S. An American told me once, he just knew it is from French.

Here's what I think:

All the -nger words in question come from French (Old French, Anglo-French), which has nasalized vowels: sounds produced by breathing air out your nose.

For people who do not have nasalized vowels in their language, nasalized vowels sound like an, on, in, un.

French speakers said, "messager", wherin 'a' was nasalized, but English speakers, not having nasal vowels in their language heard the next closest sound, which was -an- or -en-, giving messanger or messenger, with added -n-. They heard [n] so they said [n] and so they wrote "n". That's where I think -n- comes from.

messenger - Old French messageor with -n- added later.
passenger - Old French passageor "traveler" with -n- added later.
scavenger - Anglo-French scawager with -n- added later.
harbinger -Old French herbergeor with -n- added later.

 

[RonBee]

messenger
http://www.bartleby.com/61/6/M0240600.html

There is a brief etymoloy there.

(Cassie's link hasn't been working, but her explanations are quite interesting.)

 

[AUTOMOON]

Thanks a million, you are always helpful.
And I appreciate the way you treat language.

I can always get what I didn't get, though

(just a little request: Could you be kind enough to check out anything you consider to be incorrect or not idiomaticlly used in my post?)

 

[RonBee]

I can always get what I didn't get, though

I am not sure what that means. "I can't always get what I want"?

:?:

 

[AUTOMOON]

Well, I don't know if it is in a correct way.
The first get means "obtain"----your knowledge or understanding,
the second refer to understand.

Is that clear?

 

[RonBee]

Yes, but that sentence doesn't work very well. Perhaps:

• What I don't "get" at first I can always figure out sooner or later.

What do you think?

 

[AUTOMOON]

Yes, but that sentence doesn't work very well. Perhaps:

• What I don't "get" at first I can always figure out sooner or later.

What do you think?

You are right, Ronbee

Your sentence sounds to stand to reason.

quote: Is "stand to reason" an expression meaning"clear and logical"?

 

[RonBee]

Is "stand to reason" an expression meaning"clear and logical"?

Close. You could say:

• That is a sound explanation.
  That is a good explanation.
  That makes sense.
  That is as clear as a bell.

Or a variation of one of those.

 

[AUTOMOON]

Thank you, RonBee

Your tutor sounds and is easy to be figured out.

 

[RonBee]

Thank you, RonBee

Your tutor sounds and is easy to be figured out.

But not that one. :wink:

You could say:

• Your explanations are very helpful.
  You are a good tutor.
  You are a good teacher.
  Your explanations have been very helpful. (Presumably, you expect them to continue to be helpful.)
  With your help, I have learned a great deal.

 

[AUTOMOON]

You have given me lots of alternatives.
Thanks.

Do you think mine version is not idiomatic? :?:

 

[RonBee]

You have given me lots of alternatives.
Thanks.

Do you think mine version is not idiomatic? :?:

• Do you think my version is not idiomatic?

Re:

• Your tutor sounds and is easy to be figured out.

Your -- adjective meaning "belonging to you"
tutor -- a teacher, particulary of one or two pupils at a time
sounds -- appears to be
and -- a conjunction connecting two parts of a sentence
is -- exists; a connecting verb
easy -- not hard; not difficult; done without any difficulty; done with ease
to -- a preposition
be -- exists
figured -- formed into a figure
out -- not in

Sentence:

• Your tutor (your teacher) sounds (makes sounds) and is easy (and is not hard) to be figured out (to make into a figure).

In short, no. (I have tried to show you why, but I am not sure I have done a good job of it.)

Perhaps Cas or somebody can do a better job than I did of showing why that sentence doesn't work.

 

[AUTOMOON]

"Your tutor sounds and is easy to be figured out."

Personally, "sounds" means " is great"---That is a sound idea.----, and " to figure out" means " to understand".

I got "tutor"wrong:
I thought "tutor" can be refered to instructions, while it only refers to a instructor.

Does it make any sense to you, Ronbee?

 

[RonBee]

Personally, "sounds" means " is great"---That is a sound idea.----

Not exactly. A sound idea is one that is sensible. It could be a wonderful idea, but that is not what it means. Also, sounds could be a verb or a noun but not an adjective. It doesn't mean the same thing as sound.

and " to figure out" means " to understand"

Not exactly. To figure out something is to make sense out of it. It's the "figuring out" that brings you understanding. Once you have figured something out then you understand it. In other words, the figuring out is the process and the understanding is the result.

I got "tutor"wrong:
I thought "tutor" can be refered to instructions, while it only refers to a instructor.

Yes, that's right. As a matter of fact, I have done some tutoring myself. (You don't need can be in the above sentence.)



Rhyming Riddles
https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2248

Brief Verse (Couplets)
https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1579

 

[AUTOMOON]

To RonBee

You told me sounds is not an adjustive.
I am for it and followed in my sentence.

We have:

The room smells.------ The room smells bad.

That is why I have:
Your tutor sounds.------Your tutor sounds wonderful.

Perhaps it is not to your language habbit in some way?

 

[AUTOMOON]

Not exactly. To figure out something is to make sense out of it. It's the "figuring out" that brings you understanding. Once you have figured something out then you understand it. In other words, the figuring out is the process and the understanding is the result.

According to you,
"Yourtutor is easy to be figured out." is wrong?

Just as you mentioned, to figure out is a process.
When the process was going on without any obstacles, the process is quite easy.-------Do you agree?

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