Noun: feel V.S. feeling

Status
Not open for further replies.

blacknomi

Key Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Member Type
Student or Learner
Compare these two examples belowed,

There is certain feel to the script that is very traditional and PG-13, which is a first for Kevin Smith.

I think for the first three or four films there was a little feeling of being on shaky ground.



Both "feel" and "feeling" can be used as nouns, but i'm wondering if there is anything that may contrast the meanings? Could you give me some examples to help distingusih them? Thank you.
 

Tdol

Editor, UsingEnglish.com
Staff member
Joined
Nov 13, 2002
Member Type
Native Language
British English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
Japan
Yikes!

I'd say the first (which should read 'a certain feel', imo) is not an emotion but a sense. The second carries an emotional content. I'll have to think a bit moreon this, but that's my first thought.
 

blacknomi

Key Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Member Type
Student or Learner
tdol said:
Yikes!

I'd say the first (which should read 'a certain feel', imo) is not an emotion but a sense. The second carries an emotional content. I'll have to think a bit moreon this, but that's my first thought.

Thank you for the first thought. Still scratching my head. :shock:
 

Tdol

Editor, UsingEnglish.com
Staff member
Joined
Nov 13, 2002
Member Type
Native Language
British English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
Japan
I'm still mulling it over. ;-)
 

henry

Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
blacknomi said:
Compare these two examples belowed,

There is certain feel to the script that is very traditional and PG-13, which is a first for Kevin Smith.

I think for the first three or four films there was a little feeling of being on shaky ground.

Both "feel" and "feeling" can be used as nouns, but i'm wondering if there is anything that may contrast the meanings? Could you give me some examples to help distingusih them? Thank you.

As far as I know, "feel" used as a noun has more to do with(1) the feeling you get when you touch something or are touched; an act of feeling or touching;(2) the impression that is created by a place,etc.;atmosphere
e.g. It's a small forum but it has the feel of a great forum. :wink:

And " feeling " has more to do with emotion, compared to "feel", IMO.

Hope that is at least a little help. :)
 

RonBee

Moderator
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Member Type
Other
Native Language
American English
Home Country
United States
Current Location
United States
I think that's a good analysis, Henry.

:D
 

blacknomi

Key Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Member Type
Student or Learner
henry said:
blacknomi said:
Compare these two examples belowed,

There is certain feel to the script that is very traditional and PG-13, which is a first for Kevin Smith.

I think for the first three or four films there was a little feeling of being on shaky ground.

Both "feel" and "feeling" can be used as nouns, but i'm wondering if there is anything that may contrast the meanings? Could you give me some examples to help distingusih them? Thank you.

As far as I know, "feel" used as a noun has more to do with(1) the feeling you get when you touch something or are touched; an act of feeling or touching;(2) the impression that is created by a place,etc.;atmosphere
e.g. It's a small forum but it has the feel of a great forum. :wink:

And " feeling " has more to do with emotion, compared to "feel", IMO.

Hope that is at least a little help. :)

NO, your explanation does help a LOT. :lol:

"feeling' deals with something physical or emotion or experience
1. a strange feeling
2. the feeling of satisfication
3. my feeling is.....

"feel" is associated with TOUCH, atmosphere
1. the feel of silk
2. the feel of mystery

One more question, native ppl often tell language learners to learn to feel the language, but sometimes I don't have a real feel for it. In this case, is it OK to use 'feeling' instead?
 

henry

Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Language learners need to have the feeling for this particular language in order to understand it perfectly--smoothly. :)

:wink:
 

blacknomi

Key Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Member Type
Student or Learner
1.He promised to pay his debt. ______ he did on the folling day.
(A) This (B) That


2.I tried to learn the poem by heart, but _____ was no easy task.
(A) this (B) that


3.I will pay you tomorrow. _____ will satisfy you.
(A) This (B) That


4.It was raining hard, and _____ kept us indoors.
(A) this (B) that


5.He has good intentions, but _____ is not enough.
(A) This (B) That


Dear all,
I adapted those these examples from my grammar book, the bold part is the correct answer. According to Susie's and Henry's previous mention, it seems like these examples break all of rules. Example 1 describes sth in the past, but why used "this"? Could anyone kindly offer further explanation?

I'm looking forward to your answer.


sabrina
 

RonBee

Moderator
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Member Type
Other
Native Language
American English
Home Country
United States
Current Location
United States
blacknomi said:
1.He promised to pay his debt. ______ he did on the folling day.
(A) This (B) That

While This is the "correct" answer, I cannot agree. When considering whether to use "this" or "that" consider proximity in time or space. When you are talking about a third person that puts distance between the speaker and the thing talked about. Thus, we must choose that.


blacknomi said:
2.I tried to learn the poem by heart, but _____ was no easy task.
(A) this (B) that

Here we go again. While my first choice would be it, my second choice would be that. We are talking about something that is distant in time. If I was trying to learn the poem right now, I might say, "This is not easy."


blacknomi said:
3.I will pay you tomorrow. _____ will satisfy you.
(A) This (B) That

That is right. :wink:


blacknomi said:
4.It was raining hard, and _____ kept us indoors.
(A) this (B) that

Sorry, it should be that. We are talking about something that is distant in time. The rain you are talking about occurred in the past. You might say, "This rain is keeping us indoors" or "This rain is spoiling our day."


blacknomi said:
5.He has good intentions, but _____ is not enough.
(A) This (B) That

That is right. :wink:


Were my explanations helpful?

:)
 

blacknomi

Key Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Member Type
Student or Learner
RonBee said:
blacknomi said:
1.He promised to pay his debt. ______ he did on the following day.
(A) This (B) That

While This is the "correct" answer, I cannot agree. When considering whether to use "this" or "that" consider proximity in time or space. When you are talking about a third person that puts distance between the speaker and the thing talked about. Thus, we must choose that.


My grammar book said, replace the previous phrase/clause/sentence with "this" or "that" in order to avoid repetition. Then the book provides with several examples without any notes. :cry:

I agree with you to use the concept of "distance in time" to distinguish between these demonstrative pronouns. I come up of a question now,
1(a)He promised to pay his debt. ______ he did on the following day.
1(b)He promised to pay his debt. He did ______on the following day.

This is my idea.
1(a)--> This ( it's close to the previous VP)
1(b)--> That ( it's a bit far way from the previous VP)
What do you say?



blacknomi said:
2.I tried to learn the poem by heart, but _____ was no easy task.
(A) this (B) that

Here we go again. While my first choice would be it, my second choice would be that. We are talking about something that is distant in time. If I was trying to learn the poem right now, I might say, "This is not easy."

Here we go again. :lol: It's close to previous VP.


blacknomi said:
3.I will pay you tomorrow. _____ will satisfy you.
(A) This (B) That

That is right. :wink:

I try to apply my idea to this question; "that" is used to replace the action of "pay" because they are distant.


blacknomi said:
4.It was raining hard, and _____ kept us indoors.
(A) this (B) that

Sorry, it should be that. We are talking about something that is distant in time. The rain you are talking about occurred in the past. You might say, "This rain is keeping us indoors" or "This rain is spoiling our day."

So "this" seems to be alright here.

blacknomi said:
5.He has good intentions, but _____ is not enough.
(A) This (B) That

That is right. :wink:

This is present tense. Why "that"?


:)[/quote]
 

RonBee

Moderator
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Member Type
Other
Native Language
American English
Home Country
United States
Current Location
United States
blacknomi said:
RonBee said:
blacknomi said:
1.He promised to pay his debt. ______ he did on the following day.
(A) This (B) That

While This is the "correct" answer, I cannot agree. When considering whether to use "this" or "that" consider proximity in time or space. When you are talking about a third person that puts distance between the speaker and the thing talked about. Thus, we must choose that.


My grammar book said, replace the previous phrase/clause/sentence with "this" or "that" in order to avoid repetition. Then the book provides with several examples without any notes. :cry:

I agree with you to use the concept of "distance in time" to distinguish between these demonstrative pronouns. I come up of a question now,
1(a)He promised to pay his debt. ______ he did on the following day.
1(b)He promised to pay his debt. He did ______on the following day.

This is my idea.
1(a)--> This ( it's close to the previous VP)
1(b)--> That ( it's a bit far way from the previous VP)
What do you say?

I am not sure what you mean by VP, but I would only use "this" in the first person, present tense. I would also have to be quite close to what I am referring to. For example, if I say "This is a good place to live" I am at that place. If I say "That is a good place to live" I am not at the place I am referring to.



blacknomi said:
2.I tried to learn the poem by heart, but _____ was no easy task.
(A) this (B) that

Here we go again. While my first choice would be it, my second choice would be that. We are talking about something that is distant in time. If I was trying to learn the poem right now, I might say, "This is not easy."

Here we go again. :lol: It's close to previous VP.[/quote]

If I say "I tried to learn the poem" I am talking about the past. Thus, I would say "that" (referring to my effort to learn the poem at some previous time).


blacknomi said:
3.I will pay you tomorrow. _____ will satisfy you.
(A) This (B) That

That is right. :wink:

I try to apply my idea to this question; "that" is used to replace the action of "pay" because they are distant.[/quote]

Yep. :)


blacknomi said:
4.It was raining hard, and _____ kept us indoors.
(A) this (B) that

Sorry, it should be that. We are talking about something that is distant in time. The rain you are talking about occurred in the past. You might say, "This rain is keeping us indoors" or "This rain is spoiling our day."

So "this" seems to be alright here. [/quote]

In the first example, the rain occurred in the past, and "that" refers to the rain, which occurred some time in the past. In the examples in which I use "this" the speaker is talking about the rain which is occurring at that moment (present tense).

blacknomi said:
5.He has good intentions, but _____ is not enough.
(A) This (B) That

That is right. :wink:

This is present tense. Why "that"?


:)[/quote]

The speaker is using the third person ("He"), so the distance from the speaker indicates "that" should be used.

Does that help?

:)
 

blacknomi

Key Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Member Type
Student or Learner
RonBee said:
My grammar book said, replace the previous phrase/clause/sentence with "this" or "that" in order to avoid repetition. Then the book provides with several examples without any notes. :cry:

I agree with you to use the concept of "distance in time" to distinguish between these demonstrative pronouns. I come up of a question now,

1(a)He promised to pay his debt. ______ he did on the following day.
1(b)He promised to pay his debt. He did ______on the following day.

This is my idea.
1(a)--> This ( it's close to the previous VP)
1(b)--> That ( it's a bit far way from the previous VP)
What do you say?

I am not sure what you mean by VP, but I would only use "this" in the first person, present tense. I would also have to be quite close to what I am referring to. For example, if I say "This is a good place to live" I am at that place. If I say "That is a good place to live" I am not at the place I am referring to.

I'm sorry to use VP.(there are tooo much initialism in your language. :cry: ) VP means verb phrase. In 1(a), the reason why I would use "this" is becauese "this" replaced the previous verb phrase "pay his debt" and they are relatively close to each other. While in example 1(b), I would use "that" because there is distance between the demonstrative pronoun and VP in terms of the linear hierarchy of sentence.
He promised to pay his debt. He did (here is distance) that on the following day.

I totally agree with what you've said. I'm just thinking what if I re-organize the sentence patterns into 1(a) and 1 (b), would the result be the same? Could I use "that" in both 1(a) and 1(b)?


blacknomi said:
5.He has good intentions, but _____ is not enough.
(A) This (B) That

That is right. :wink:

This is present tense. Why "that"?

The speaker is using the third person ("He"), so the distance from the speaker indicates "that" should be used.
I see it.

RonBee said:
Does that help?

you are very helpful. I do appreciate your help. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

Casiopea

VIP Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2003
Member Type
Other
There is certain feel to the script that is very traditional and PG-13, which is a first for Kevin Smith.

There's a kind of perception/way of seeing/understanding....

I think for the first three or four films there was a little feeling of being on shaky ground.

...a sense/sensation of being on shaky ground

All the best,
 

Casiopea

VIP Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2003
Member Type
Other
blacknomi said:
1.He promised to pay his debt. ______ he did on the following day.
(A) This (B) That
==> Both 'That' and 'This' are accetable. Paying the dept is what he did. 'Paying the dept' functions as a gerund, a thing, the thing the speaker is talking about right now (i.e. This) or in the past (i.e. That).


2.I tried to learn the poem by heart, but _____ was no easy task.
(A) this (B) that
==> 'That' or "This' is acceptable. Learning the poem was no easy task. 'Learning the poem' functions as a thing, the thing the speaker is a) talking about as if it were the present (i.e. This) or b) talking about as if it were the past (i.e. That).

3. I will pay you tomorrow. _____ will satisfy you.
(A) This (B) That
==> Paying you tomorrow. "That' refers to the past--the paying will take place before (i.e. the past) the person is satisfied. One could also use "This will satisfy you". The paying will take place--this idea is now, in the present, as the speaker is talking.

4. It was raining hard, and _____ kept us indoors.
(A) this (B) that
==> Either 'this' or 'that' is acceptable. 'that' means, an event in the past, whereas 'this' refers to the present time of the utterance.

5. He has good intentions, but _____ is not enough.
(A) This (B) That
==> Both are acceptable. 'That' refers to the previous statement, whereas 'this' refers to the present time of the utterance.

This and That are deictic in nature.

Quick definitions (deictic = die+k+tik)
noun: a word specifying identity or spacial or temporal location from the perspective of a speaker or hearer in the context in which the communication occurs. (SOURCE: OneLook)

"this" refers to something close to the speaker in time and/or space, whereas "that" refers to something far away from the speaker in time and/or space. It's up to the speaker to decide what s/he deems close or far away. Each speaker will differ in the usage of 'this' and 'that'. There is no one correct answer for the fill-in-the-blanks above. Both (A) and (B) are correct.

Pronouns are deictic: 1st: I (here), 2nd: you (close to me), 3rd: s/he (over there). In some Native American languages there's even a 4th deictic (i.e. the person who is not there, within our sight).

All the best,
 

blacknomi

Key Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Member Type
Student or Learner
Thank you very much indeed, Cas. :D
Idiosyncrasy does make language more complex, huh.
One more question, can I replace all of those with "it" simply? :?:



sabrina
 

RonBee

Moderator
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Member Type
Other
Native Language
American English
Home Country
United States
Current Location
United States
blacknomi said:
RonBee said:
My grammar book said, replace the previous phrase/clause/sentence with "this" or "that" in order to avoid repetition. Then the book provides with several examples without any notes. :cry:

I agree with you to use the concept of "distance in time" to distinguish between these demonstrative pronouns. I come up of a question now,

1(a)He promised to pay his debt. ______ he did on the following day.
1(b)He promised to pay his debt. He did ______on the following day.

This is my idea.
1(a)--> This ( it's close to the previous VP)
1(b)--> That ( it's a bit far way from the previous VP)
What do you say?

I am not sure what you mean by VP, but I would only use "this" in the first person, present tense. I would also have to be quite close to what I am referring to. For example, if I say "This is a good place to live" I am at that place. If I say "That is a good place to live" I am not at the place I am referring to.

I'm sorry to use VP.(there are tooo much initialism in your language. :cry: ) VP means verb phrase. In 1(a), the reason why I would use "this" is becauese "this" replaced the previous verb phrase "pay his debt" and they are relatively close to each other. While in example 1(b), I would use "that" because there is distance between the demonstrative pronoun and VP in terms of the linear hierarchy of sentence.
He promised to pay his debt. He did (here is distance) that on the following day.

I totally agree with what you've said. I'm just thinking what if I re-organize the sentence patterns into 1(a) and 1 (b), would the result be the same? Could I use "that" in both 1(a) and 1(b)?

Don't apologize. I'm learning. Hopefully, I will remember what VP means. :wink:

Unfortunately, I cannot agree with you about "pay his debt". That is a verb and its object, not a verb phrase. An example of a verb phrase might be "pay up" (meaning: pay what you owe); in that case the two words comprise the entire verb.

When I used the word "proximity" I wasn't referring to the proximity of the words in the sentence. :)


blacknomi said:
5.He has good intentions, but _____ is not enough.
(A) This (B) That

That is right. :wink:

This is present tense. Why "that"?

The speaker is using the third person ("He"), so the distance from the speaker indicates "that" should be used.
I see it.

RonBee said:
Does that help?

you are very helpful. I do appreciate your help. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:[/quote]

You are quite welcome.

:D
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top