on the contrary??

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Taka

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The sentences:

Any grouping of human beings has its own world: a certain range of knowledge and certain modes of evaluation. Such a worldview is subject to constant modification as time rolls on, Nor can its association with the particular groupings prevent it from being adopted, to a greater or a lesser extent, by members of some other grouping. On the contrary, information, tastes, habits, modes of feeling and judgement can be transmitted from one sociocultural grouping to another, and individuals can in any case have loyalties to more than one grouping, so that they themselves are mobile between different worldviews accordingly.

Why "on the contrary"?? It's not contrary at all. In fact, it's almost the same thing, IMO; it seems to me that "information, tastes, habits, modes of feeling and judgement can be transmitted from one sociocultural grouping to another, and individuals can in any case have loyalties to more than one grouping..." is a paraphrase of "nor can its association with the particular groupings prevent it from being adopted...".
 
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bigjohn

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You have found a wonderful example of terrible writing. I suspect this to be a poor translation from another language.
 

Taka

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bigjohn said:
You have found a wonderful example of terrible writing. I suspect this to be a poor translation from another language.

So it's a translation, not written by a native speaker of English?
 

twostep

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Taka said:
The sentences:

Any grouping of human beings has its own world: a certain range of knowledge and certain modes of evaluation. Such a worldview is subject to constant modification as time rolls on, Nor can its association with the particular groupings prevent it from being adopted, to a greater or a lesser extent, by members of some other grouping. On the contrary, information, tastes, habits, modes of feeling and judgement can be transmitted from one sociocultural grouping to another, and individuals can in any case have loyalties to more than one grouping, so that they themselves are mobile between different worldviews accordingly.

Why "on the contrary"?? It's not contrary at all. In fact, it's almost the same thing, IMO; it seems to me that "information, tastes, habits, modes of feeling and judgement can be transmitted from one sociocultural grouping to another, and individuals can in any case have loyalties to more than one grouping..." is a paraphrase of "nor can its association with the particular groupings prevent it from being adopted...".

Taka, this is the way I interpret it - things cannot be prevented from being shared just the opposite they will move to other groups.
May I inquire about the source of this paragraph?
 

twostep

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bigjohn said:
You have found a wonderful example of terrible writing. I suspect this to be a poor translation from another language.

Please elaborate this statement. Thank you.
 

Taka

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Sorry, twostep, I don't understand what you mean (the underlined part in particular).

twostep said:
Taka, this is the way I interpret it - things cannot be prevented from being shared just the opposite they will move to other groups.


twostep said:
May I inquire about the source of this paragraph?

It's from an entrance exam of a Japanese university.
 

twostep

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Taka said:
Sorry, twostep, I don't understand what you mean (the underlined part in particular).

twostep said:
Taka, this is the way I interpret it - things cannot be prevented from being shared just the opposite they will move to other groups.


twostep said:
May I inquire about the source of this paragraph?

It's from an entrance exam of a Japanese university.

"on the contrary" or "just the opposite" - it cannot be prevented that information is being shared, moves on. It is like a secret. It will be shared no matter how to try to keep it from being shared with others. Can you prevent some flowers from spreading in your garden? On the contrary - they self seed. There is nothing you can do but pull up seedlings.
 

Taka

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twostep said:
Taka, this is the way I interpret it - things cannot be prevented from being shared just the opposite they will move to other groups.

"on the contrary" or "just the opposite" - it cannot be prevented that information is being shared, moves on. It is like a secret. It will be shared no matter how to try to keep it from being shared with others. Can you prevent some flowers from spreading in your garden? On the contrary - they self seed. There is nothing you can do but pull up seedlings.

Now I see what you mean. The reason I didn't understand what you said is that you used "just the opposite" as a conjunction. Is such usage acceptable? If it is, I didn't know that.

Anyway, I think [you cannot prevent some flowers from spreading in your garden]=[they seed themselves]. In other words, both mean plants proliferate. I see no difference between them. If it were:

You cannot prevent some flowers from spreading in your garden. In fact, they seed themselves.

then I think it would make sense.
 

twostep

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Taka said:
twostep said:
Taka, this is the way I interpret it - things cannot be prevented from being shared just the opposite they will move to other groups.

"on the contrary" or "just the opposite" - it cannot be prevented that information is being shared, moves on. It is like a secret. It will be shared no matter how to try to keep it from being shared with others. Can you prevent some flowers from spreading in your garden? On the contrary - they self seed. There is nothing you can do but pull up seedlings.

Now I see what you mean. The reason I didn't understand what you said is that you used "just the opposite" as a conjunction. Is such usage acceptable? If it is, I didn't know that.

I disagree Your Honor :wink:
You pack lunch for your child and tell him not to share it with friend A. In contrary - he shared it with friend A and friend B. In fact - he shared but on the contrary to your instructions. I think you have to bring that in. No matter what kings and chieftains or nature intended - ideas and progress countered instructions. Call it an act of disobedience. Is that how my cookies got spread around the whole class?

Anyway, I think [you cannot prevent some flowers from spreading in your garden]=[they seed themselves]. In other words, both mean plants proliferate. I see no difference between them. If it were:

You cannot prevent some flowers from spreading in your garden. In fact, they seed themselves.

then I think it would make sense.
 

Taka

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Ah! Now I got it :!: :!:

My Oxford Advanced Learner's only says:

on the contrary: used to introduce a statement that says the opposite of the last one.

And that was the only definition I knew, before I checked The American Heritage, which says:

on the contrary :In opposition to what has been stated or what is expected.

I've learned a lot now. :D

Thank you!
 

twostep

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Taka said:
Ah! Now I got it :!: :!:

My Oxford Advanced Learner's only says:

on the contrary: used to introduce a statement that says the opposite of the last one

That was the only definition I knew, before I checked The American Heritage, which says:

on the contrary :In opposition to what has been stated or what is expected.

I've learned a lot now. :D


You succeeded again - now I am confused. My normal state of mind. :wink:
Thank you!
 

Taka

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twostep said:
You succeeded again - now I am confused. My normal state of mind. :wink:

How come you are confused? May I help you?
 

twostep

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Taka said:
twostep said:
You succeeded again - now I am confused. My normal state of mind. :wink:

How come you are confused? May I help you?

Thank you for your kind offer. Play of words - now it makes sense to you. That hardly ever happens. You always keep on asking questions. Now I am confused. :wink:
 

Taka

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twostep said:
Thank you for your kind offer. Play of words - now it makes sense to you. That hardly ever happens. You always keep on asking questions. Now I am confused. :wink:

How can "now I'm confused" be "play of words"?? Is there any hidden meaning behind?

Now I am really confused...
 

Taka

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Francois said:
What about an Indian head massage?

FRC

A what? An Indian massage??
 

twostep

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Taka said:
twostep said:
Thank you for your kind offer. Play of words - now it makes sense to you. That hardly ever happens. You always keep on asking questions. Now I am confused. :wink:

How can "now I'm confused" be "play of words"?? Is there any hidden meaning behind?

Now I am really confused...

I would never send something with hidden meanings. The sentence make complete sense to me. The more questions you asked the less sense it made to me. Lighten up - a compliment - I do not get conused easily. :wink:
 

Taka

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twostep said:
I would never send something with hidden meanings. The sentence make complete sense to me. The more questions you asked the less sense it made to me. Lighten up - a compliment - I do not get conused easily. :wink:

Now I see what you mean. Thank you!

But I'm worried a bit that actually my questions here have made you confused quite often. :lol:
 
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